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Post by h on Jun 20, 2014 21:03:00 GMT 1
france is kicking the shit out of the swiss. and italy lost too.
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Post by miscmisc on Jun 20, 2014 23:15:25 GMT 1
Costa Rica through, England out, even before the final group game. Didn't go the way most people thought it would. Hats off to Costa Rica. Italy looked hopelessly lost against them, but I think there is this simple fact that the gaps between the teams are so small today that anything can happen, depending largely - certainly far more largely than it used to be - on conditions and luck. I did expect England to fail to advance (just gut feeling, pretty much), but at the same time I think they are still one of the better teams in this World Cup, certainly better than the English squad in 2010. A result is a result is a result, but it's a bit like lottery nowadays, and England lost big on that.
I really enjoyed Ivory Coast vs. Colombia. It was a very good game where both teams showed their strength, and fought their hearts out. There is really nothing more you can say about it. Just good 90 minutes of football.
On the other hand, Japan vs Greece was an absolute snoozer. It was one of those games which you only need to take a look at the stats to get the picture of. Possession: 70% vs. 30%; Final score: 0-0. Toothless attacks vs. a bus in front of the goal. Yes, Greece's captain was sent off around the end of the first half, but the possession stats were actually even more ridiculous in the first half (76% vs. 24%). That's the kind of numbers you rarely see even in a boring Spain vs. minnow game in qualifiers. 0-0 was a fair result, but I wanted to watch a football game. It's probably no one's fault, though. Greece did what they thought was the best thing to do against Japan, and indeed it probably was. This draw kept them alive in the race.
France seem in form at the moment, but momentary "form" is always deceptive in a short competition.
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Post by h on Jun 21, 2014 0:46:07 GMT 1
looks like honduras and ecuador are having a decent match
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aubtin
Novice Member
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Post by aubtin on Jun 21, 2014 4:59:07 GMT 1
I did expect England to fail to advance (just gut feeling, pretty much), but at the same time I think they are still one of the better teams in this World Cup, certainly better than the English squad in 2010. Personally I really don't think that's the case. Perversely, I do think we played some of the best football we've played in years, and there's lot of positives to take from the younger attacking players, but our defence is by far the worst it's been in years. Despite whatever problems England's had over the years the thing that's always defined that team is the back four; Gary Neville, Adams, Ferdinand, Campbell, Terry, Cole. We've got no one anywhere near that kind of quality now. Johnson and Jagielka in particular have played really poorly I think. On a lighter note, an hilarious Scottish fan took his hatred of England to the next level by travelling all the way to Brazil to join the Uruguay fans in cheering against England! LOL, guy's and absolute legend!...  Oh, and man France are playing some lovely football. I'm a big Benzema fan and he looks in some form so far. |
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Post by miscmisc on Jun 21, 2014 13:21:06 GMT 1
I think you are a bit too harsh on the English defenders. At no moment did they really collapse. I know many are very disappointed, or even mad, at the way they conceded that first Suarez goal, but you really have to praise Cavani for that. That was an amazing pass, plus Suarez's good positioning. The fact that there were no fewer than six English defenders is almost irrelevant in the face of such a great combination attack. Very difficult for anyone to defend.
And I do think that England's style made the likes of Ferdinand, Cole and Terry look a little better than they actually were. When you have the habit of quickly retreating into your area at every single sign of danger, you are forced to produce some heroic defensive play. They had to defend as if their own lives were at stake. But on the flip side of the coin was that they drew their own team into such a situation largely by themselves, killing the momentum of their own attackers in the process.
Maybe the likes of Jagielka and Johnson couldn't pull the same in a similar situation, but the question is whether that's necessarily a huge loss for England on balance. I agree that Jagielka is a bit suspect, but the current defenders' linkage to the midfield and beyond is very noticeably better.
Maybe I can say that because I'm not an English supporter and therefore have no emotional investment in their actual results, but by God, England had been one of the most boring teams in the world for a long, long time. But this one is a team that I do enjoy watching. They are a very nice short-counter team now.
But I know - as soon as I say that, they will make an absolute arse of themselves against Costa Rica, and everyone will agree that they are the worst England defense ever. That's the way it goes in football. I know.
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aubtin
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Post by aubtin on Jun 21, 2014 14:34:38 GMT 1
I dunno I think it's a fair assessment. I think our defence was everyone's biggest fear before the tournament, and rightly so. There were just real problems keeping shape.
I mean, speaking of the first Suarez goal, Cavani's ball in was beautiful but the fact he was able to get in that position is exactly why I don't think much of Johnson as a right back. I don't know what it is but he seems to have a really bad habit of letting people come in on the inside, he just too passive and never holds his shape down his flank. I lost count of the amount of times he did that. And that second goal from Suarez was absolutely a massive defensive fuck up. Jagielka was in no man's land.
Honestly, of course I'm disappointed but tbh I really wasn't expected much this time round, if anything I'm pleasantly surprised with how we played going forward. I totally agree with you about England over the last few years, so even though this is our worst result at a World Cup since I don't know how long, I'm happy the team went out at least trying to play the kind of football we wanna watch.
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Post by miscmisc on Jun 21, 2014 19:28:20 GMT 1
I understand what you are saying, but you are too harsh if you are blaming the second Suarez goal on anyone but Gerrard. The defenders did keep Suarez offside after all, and did expect Gerrard to deal with that ball. I can't blame them for that. I don't think their positioning was really off. You don't quite expect the ball to bounce off your teammate's head and go perfectly into Suarez's zone like that. Actually, I wouldn't even blame the captain. Shit happens. That was a fluke goal, although Suarez's shot was of course brilliant.
I know you are too heartbroken to say anything now, though... Iran were so close... so close...
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Post by miscmisc on Jun 21, 2014 20:01:08 GMT 1
Argentina have shown their inability to break through packing defense time and time again in competitions and friendlies, so it wasn't much of a surprise that they struggled so hard against Iran. Argentina are not quite a Germany, who can utilize their physical superiority on any bus-parking defense via set pieces and whatnot.
Football is cruel, though. An AT goal like that is morally devastating for the defending team. Iran didn't do anything different in the dying minutes, with plenty of gas still left in their tank, but it's just that Messi suddenly decided to take a shot. He had had many chances before to do the same, but somehow he finally did when the game was almost over.
Iran showed similar ultra-defense in their crucial match against South Korea, but didn't create nearly as many chances in that game (they created only one, to be precise, and converted it successfully to a 1-0 win) as they did this time against Argentina. They had a massive, massive chance to do something big at the world stage. Could've even been a monumental uno-zero victory. Alas.
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aubtin
Novice Member
Posts: 129
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Post by aubtin on Jun 22, 2014 12:08:33 GMT 1
I understand what you are saying, but you are too harsh if you are blaming the second Suarez goal on anyone but Gerrard. The defenders did keep Suarez offside after all, and did expect Gerrard to deal with that ball. I can't blame them for that. I don't think their positioning was really off. Of course, it's all very well for me to sit here and complain with hindsight, but I just (painfully and reluctantly) watched the second goal again I still definitely think Jagielka's all wrong there. He gets dragged way out of position by following the run from Cavani but then hesitates and stops midway in the middle of nowhere. He doesn't go after the ball and he doesn't hold position, he just leaves a fuck-off massive hole between himself and goal for Saurez. If he'd stayed back and kept line with Cahill & Baines he could have delt with the error from Gerrard. But anyway... I know you are too heartbroken to say anything now, though... Iran were so close... so close... Oh man, so gutted but so in awe of Messi. Was the weirdest thing, I was sat there feeling like shit but had a big smile on my face, unbelievable goal. I thought Iran played great in the second half, (against Argentina no less!) with a few lovely chances on the break. I really like the look of Alireza Jahanbakhsh who came on late in the second half, that ball he threaded through to Ghoochannejhad was a beauty. If we can play like that against Bosnia- Hercegovina... I feel sorry for Queiroz though. He's done a great job with that team with seemingly no support from the Ministry of Sports. |
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Post by miscmisc on Jun 22, 2014 16:46:48 GMT 1
I feel sorry for Queiroz though. He's done a great job with that team with seemingly no support from the Ministry of Sports. Can you elaborate on that? I remember Afshin Ghotbi, former national team coach and currently Shimizu S-Pulse manager in the J.League, mentioning his "problems with the government", although he didn't really dwell on that and quickly moved on to another topic. |
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Post by K1power on Jun 22, 2014 17:36:50 GMT 1
Despite my frustration that Germany didn't win, I got to admit Germany VS Ghana was an awesome game.
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aubtin
Novice Member
Posts: 129
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Post by aubtin on Jun 22, 2014 20:12:26 GMT 1
Can you elaborate on that? I remember Afshin Ghotbi, former national team coach and currently Shimizu S-Pulse manager in the J.League, mentioning his "problems with the government", although he didn't really dwell on that and quickly moved on to another topic. Well, I think some problems started to appear when Queiroz did an interview for BBC Persian (a channel which, for obvious reasons, the regime has blacklisted) last year, which had him in trouble with the government. Plus within that interview he made some very frank, critical, comments about how Persepolis - one of the biggest clubs in Iran - had mismanaged some of the countries top players. The chairman of Persepolis at the time was the very well connected and outspoken Mohammad Rouyanian. So even before the World Cup build-up he seemed to have fallen out of favour with some people of note. As the World Cup neared, at a time of immense pressure from international sanctions it seems that Queiroz's Team Melli hand lost some political and financial backing. Sponsors backed out, the Iran FA organised a handful of sub-par friendlies against teams like Trinidad & Tobago, and then there was a farcical incident with the dodgy kit supplied to the team which the FA advised to wash only in cold water as not to shrink, and told the players not to exchange shirts with the opposing team after a match as shirts were in short supply! Plus there was a huge corruption scandal a few months ago, relating to oil smuggling and money laundering, that involved some very high profile businessmen in the football world (including the above mentioned, now former, chairman of Persepolis) which has put a lot of scrutiny on people within the sport. All in all you can't blame him for wanting to pack it in. |
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aubtin
Novice Member
Posts: 129
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Post by aubtin on Jun 22, 2014 20:14:50 GMT 1
Despite my frustration that Germany didn't win, I got to admit Germany VS Ghana was an awesome game. Great game! And it had to be Klose who got the equaliser & tied Ronaldo's record! |
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Post by miscmisc on Jun 22, 2014 22:47:32 GMT 1
Can you elaborate on that? I remember Afshin Ghotbi, former national team coach and currently Shimizu S-Pulse manager in the J.League, mentioning his "problems with the government", although he didn't really dwell on that and quickly moved on to another topic. Well, I think some problems started to appear when Queiroz did an interview for BBC Persian (a channel which, for obvious reasons, the regime has blacklisted) last year, which had him in trouble with the government. Plus within that interview he made some very frank, critical, comments about how Persepolis - one of the biggest clubs in Iran - had mismanaged some of the countries top players. The chairman of Persepolis at the time was the very well connected and outspoken Mohammad Rouyanian. So even before the World Cup build-up he seemed to have fallen out of favour with some people of note. As the World Cup neared, at a time of immense pressure from international sanctions it seems that Queiroz's Team Melli hand lost some political and financial backing. Sponsors backed out, the Iran FA organised a handful of sub-par friendlies against teams like Trinidad & Tobago, and then there was a farcical incident with the dodgy kit supplied to the team which the FA advised to wash only in cold water as not to shrink, and told the players not to exchange shirts with the opposing team after a match as shirts were in short supply! Plus there was a huge corruption scandal a few months ago, relating to oil smuggling and money laundering, that involved some very high profile businessmen in the football world (including the above mentioned, now former, chairman of Persepolis) which has put a lot of scrutiny on people within the sport. All in all you can't blame him for wanting to pack it in. Thanks. It's sad to hear that, especially considering how huge Team Melli clearly are for most Iranians (men, at least). In fact, almost scarily huge for many of them, from my personal experience. Their reaction to Team Melli's loss is akin to how you react to the imminent end of the world. Almost existential. Iranian football seems to me to have so much potential that I wish it was managed better. Even when they had better players like Daei, Mahdavikia, Azizi, Bagheri, Hashemian et al (I never cared for Ali Karimi, though... who was usually rather a ball-losing liability for the national team except for a couple of occasions), they never reached their full potential. |
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Post by miscmisc on Jun 23, 2014 2:59:10 GMT 1
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