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Post by miscmisc on Jul 28, 2014 22:44:16 GMT 1
I'm sick and tired of that "Hamas is using civilians as human shields" nonsense. The US used the same argument in Iraq, and that was nonsense too.
Their argument is true and false. True in that urban guerrilla war setting comes with natural "human shields". And false for the same reason, if that makes sense to you. And where it's "true" or not isn't even the fucking point. It really reminds me of that scene in that movie - I forgot which one - where Michael J. Fox complains, "This is not fair!", and the old man asks him, "Who told you it was gonna be fair?" And he replies after a long pause, "Well, no one, actually."
It's a fucking urban guerrilla war that we have there. Name one, just one, where there was no "human shields" in the history of asymmetric urban guerrilla warfare. The presence of natural "human shields", due to the high density of people, is what urban guerrilla warfare is all about, and why it's always grim and nasty. Gaza is a tiny, tiny space on top of that. Where the fuck should the Gazans go? They live there, and have nowhere else to go. The vast majority of the fighters aren't professional, either. They have jobs, unless they are unemployed, and work and live there like any other people. Those building the IDF are bombing into another dimension is their homes.
And it's rich coming from a military force that bomb hospitals into pieces because they "suspect" that there may be missiles stored in there. No one actually verifies the accuracy of that "suspicion" afterwards. Moreover, they already accuse Hamas of "using innocent-looking places as weapon storage". Who can be sure that they wouldn't destroy a building that the Palestinians set up as a shelter for "women and children"? After all the incompetence that the IDF has displayed so far, who can really trust their "intelligence"?
And this absurd idea that the guerrilla fighters should "fight like a man" instead of "hiding" behind the "human shields". Are they joking, man? Are they really, really saying that the guerrilla group, who are vastly, vastly materially inferior to their foes, should be neatly gathered in one building, waving the flag, and say, "Hey, we are all here, come and get us!", so that the entire organization will be wiped off the earth in 0.5 seconds? Where do the Israelis live, in a la-la-la land?
It's not even about right or wrong; it's just down right pathetic. Here's advice for all the military forces in the world: if you don't have the stomach or boldness to engage in asymmetric urban guerrilla warfare, think of a way to avoid it - and if you've already made up your mind, stop whining, just fight, and end up killing a shit load of civilians and bear the consequences "like a man", bitches.
And read Mao Zedong. You'll learn a thing or two about the kind of warfare you put yourself in. Holy shit are those people pathetic, whiny killers.
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Post by Jofeljoh! on Jul 29, 2014 7:05:22 GMT 1
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Post by miscmisc on Jul 29, 2014 16:29:15 GMT 1
Horrible article. Let me explain.
The only significance of the article lies in the fact that it was written by a Pakistani. It's not significant for me in any way, but perhaps it is for many. Well, I guess it would be somewhat (but only somewhat) admirable if he was preaching that to the crazy Muslim fundies and real anti-Semites back in his home country, Pakistan.
But no, he's preaching that on Huffington Post, whose readers are exactly the type of people who need that kind of "centrist" scolding the least in the world. Most of them have been fed skewed opinions in favor of Israel for their entire lives. They are slowly coming back to reality now, and this dude throws a spanner in it like that. How admirable.
I'm someone who believes in thinking of your audience before opening your mouth. Obviously he doesn't. If I thought you guys reading this were all crazy Islamists who believe in the Elders of Zion and all that shit, I would be saying very different things.
Anyway, those "7 points" are the tired, worn-out, weak-ass dragons that I've had to slain a few gazillion times in my short life. He's almost a carbon copy of a typical dovish liberal Zionist, with that do-gooder attitude. There is nothing new there. I obviously don't have time or space here to actually elaborate on each "point", so I'll keep it blunt and straight to the point as much as possible, though it's going to be long. I have nothing else to do tonight, unfortunately.
Basically, what he is saying is that:
1) "Look, Israel may be doing bad things, but do you think Hamas are angels? No way!"
Wow, no shit, Sherlock.
And I hope that he knows how Hamas came about in the first place. Palestine had been a largely secular place until. Until. That's the key word: "Until".
and 2) "Hey, there are lots of actual anti-Semites in Palestine!"
Wow, no shit, Sherlock.
I would be absolutely shocked if there weren't. I'm even amazed that MORE Palestinians haven't turned to religious fundamentalism and extreme antisemitism given what they have had to go through.
The only reply that he deserves to get on those points is: So what are you saying, Captain Obvious? What exactly is your contribution to the discussion, General Obvious?
That's really the only thing I would give him, because all he's engaging in is the tired, worn-out, classical Greek sophist rebuttals. Why the fuck do we have to "admit" that Hamas are no angels now when most of the media in the most powerful country in the world, whose people are the main audience at Huffington Post, have been busy demonizing them for the past decades? Those media outlets need no Pakistani musician to help them out. Sheesh.
and 3) "Look! Assad (or whoever else) is even worse than Israelis! Why pick on Israel?"
Oh man... this is depressing.
I'm sorry that I can't say something more intellectual-sounding here. But this kind of elementary stuff is about all that article deserves to get from me. Point #4 particularly displays the utter idiocy of this guy. War isn't a fucking power-point presentation to sell new smartphones. People make all kinds of "irrational" decisions in wars, and even the US military, the most well-organized and materially-rich military force in the world, is no exception. In the "logic" of warfare and never-ending ethnic conflicts like this, Hamas launching rockets like that is actually normal. And please stop that stupid argument about "human shields". I've already addressed that in a previous post, but let me be even bolder here: "human shields" is the REALITY of urban guerrilla warfare, which means you never get an urban guerrilla war without "human shields", and it is also a big WEAPON particularly in this age of PR. Of course, Hamas are aware of that - how powerful those images can be as a political weapon. But you have to take a pretty spectacular jump from there to accusing them of being moral monsters who secretly celebrate the deaths of their own children.
If you do, you just don't live in reality. Enjoy your life in your Disney Land, and never invite me. I'm not interested in that creepy world of yours. And by all means, keep condemning every single person who has ever been involved in asymmetric urban warfare in the history of humanity because they are reckless/think light of human lives etc., including the Jews who fought in Warsaw Ghetto against the Nazis. Their revolt was absolutely hopeless, and only hastened the deaths of other Jews. A few of them could've had a better chance to survive, or at least live a little longer, if the "hotheads" hadn't jumped the gun like that. But I'm even fucking proud of them as fellow human beings. You clearly aren't. They were "reckless" after all.
People like him would never understand why the vast majority of Gazans rejected the cease-fire, while knowing that more of them would probably have to die, even though many of them are NOT Hamas supporters. The Jews who died in Warsaw would, though. People like him know nothing about warfare, siege, humiliation and human psyche in general, which means he doesn't have a proper historical perspective on what's going on in the world. Just because he was born in the Muslim world doesn't give him some sort of carte blanche, especially if he thinks that kind of sophomoric arguments are somehow intellectually worthy of attention.
And what the fuck is that "picking sides between Israel and Hamas" accusation? Who is he talking about? What the non-racist, non-religious people who are critical of Israel are doing is precisely to go beyond that, and the first step that we must take in order to achieve that goal is to recognize Israel's actions over the last three or four decades as what they actually are. People like me see the fundamental source of the problem in Israel's - the Goliath's - steadfast refusal to admit their faults, so from our point of view, he can shove that vacuous "both sides do it" pseudo-objectivity up his own ass and fuck off. We are way, way past that stupid equivalency game, which he clearly doesn't understand given that he thinks "Hamas are no angels!" is somehow breaking news to us, and that "get over it now" is an effective message to either Israel or Palestine. His clock must have stopped I-don't-even-know-when. Certainly way before the building of the walls, way before Gaza concentration camp. We had a point where a simple "get over it" message could actually work about ten moves back, but not anymore thanks mostly to Israel. There was a point where Palestinians at least tried to "get over it", but Israel ended up sabotaging it. And we have this fool here who seemingly has no clue about any of that.
He's not even sure who he's really talking to. He's basically sucking his own dick, feeling so proud of his "objective" view which is actually not even worth a penny.
And what's his conclusion, his contribution, to the problem?
Yeah... the two-state solution!
Never mind that's precisely the thing that Israel has done everything, absolutely everything in their power, to destroy. We wouldn't be here if that was a viable solution. The Palestine side made concessions after concessions precisely for that "solution", and every single fucking time Israel reneged on it. And he has the nerve to tell us to be balanced and all that shit.
He is EXACTLY the type of people who have prolonged the miseries in that part of the world, which includes the misery of Israelis who have had to permanently defend their own indefensible.
God, I hate these "centrist" types whose contribution to actually solving the problem amounts to less than zero, even more than I do the jingoistic nationalists in Israel. They should just shut up and fuck off.
Damn. You do know how to provoke me into a long rant, jofel, lol.
EDIT: OK, I accidentally hit the "like" button, because it's right next to EDIT. Now it says "miscmisc likes this" up there. Makes me look like a clown. Whoever designed this forum is evil.
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Post by miscmisc on Jul 30, 2014 9:56:48 GMT 1
Martin Luther King Jr. perfectly summed up the Moderate/Centrist types, and how they can be the greatest obstacle, in one simple paragraph. From Letter from a Birmingham Jail:
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Post by miscmisc on Jul 30, 2014 10:11:52 GMT 1
Basically those who are whining about "human shields" are either:
1) People who have spent an astronomical amount of money on shiny weapons and latest technology, and are absolutely frustrated that those weapons can't win them a war even against a tunnel-digging "caveman" enemy whose biggest weapons are Do-It-Yourself rockets made in some garage which are about as accurate as drunk Russel Crowe playing darts at a hotel bar - almost solely because of the bad publicity of killing civilians. Basically, pathetic whiners who refuse to accept the reality where the presence of "human shields" is the norm. If there is one people who should "get over it", it's them.
or
2) Idiots.
I actually think 2) is much worse than 1), who at least know deep down that they are just whining.
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Post by miscmisc on Jul 30, 2014 10:48:09 GMT 1
"One must be a fox to recognize traps, and a lion to frighten wolves. Those that wish to be only lions do not understand this." - from The Prince (1513), by Niccolo Machiavelli
Even Machiavelli - the champion of using violence to achieve a political goal - would go, "Oh dear... Oh dear...", looking at the way Israel has done its wars over the last several decades.
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Post by miscmisc on Jul 30, 2014 13:43:01 GMT 1
Happy 100th Anniversary of World War I, everyone!
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Post by miscmisc on Jul 30, 2014 18:49:19 GMT 1
These are three main excuses for killing the civilians that the Israel supporters made:
1. "The difference between Hamas and us is that we don't deliberately target civilians while Hamas do with those rockets."
2. "Hamas are hiding behind women and children..." ("...therefore we must kill those women and children to get to the bastards", but they never finish the sentence for an obvious reason)
3. "Many of the photos of maimed/burned children you see have been doctored/photoshopped/fabricated."
(1) is a classic one, used by virtually anyone who is a military force fighting against a vastly inferior one whose only military option left is acts of terrorism, and probably the most convincing one for many. There is a certain amount of hypocrisy hidden in this argument, as it can easily lead to the "Might makes Right" attitude, but at least on paper it's a respectable argument.
(2) is bollocks, as I've argued until blue in the face already. No more words on this.
(3) is the nuttiest one. Two days ago, David Frum, a "respected" crazy-ass American conservative/neocon columnist, called photos taken by a photographer working for the New York Times "staged and fabricated" based on what some nutty conspiracy theory website said, and was ripped a new asshole by a New York Times reporter who bluntly said, "I was there when those photos were taken, so stop talking out of your ass, moron." I'm of course just paraphrasing her, but that was the gist of her comment.
Regardless of that, this argument is wide-spread among many Israelis and their supporters abroad.
And now, there is a new one:
4. "The Gazans voted for Hamas... so it's fair game if Israel have to kill the civilians."
No, it's not just the Israelis in the middle of the war fever. It's not just the crazy rabbis in the US who are notorious for making inflammatory comments in general. Some Jewish American creep @ New York University - a law expert, no less - wrote a column for the WSJ, in which he made exactly the same argument, albeit in a "softer" language. Like, "are we really sure that those 'civilians' are truly innocent?" kind of stuff.
Needless to say, this is exactly, literally exactly, the argument that Osama bin Laden used to justify 9/11.
So, I guess they embrace the "terrorist" position too. It's ALL fair game, then.
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Post by miscmisc on Jul 31, 2014 5:30:24 GMT 1
Chris Gunness, a former BBC reporter and now a spokesman @ UN's Relief and Works Agency, completely loses it in front of the camera.
He's a British man. Culturally speaking, British men - unlike Latin Americans, Asians (West or East) etc. - are not supposed to break down like that in public. That's one of the tenets of the Anglo culture, which Americans largely share.
This kind of footage is about 1,000 times as powerful as 100 Hamas rockets.
Israel would say that all Gunness has done right there is give the Palestinians ample ammos for propaganda. Oh yes, you bet. This footage will get heavy rotations everywhere. And there is nothing Israel can do about that. They have gotten away with so much for so long that their bitching will sound hollow.
You might say, like our Pakistani-Canadian friend, that there are worse miseries in many other parts of the world. Yeah, what about Syria? Iraq? Libya, maybe? Yeah, you are right, quantitatively speaking. But you surely don't think that's a reason good enough to continue to treat Israel with kid gloves, when what's going on over there is far simpler than anywhere else in the Middle East. If you do, I would urge you to explain to me your ethical foundation, philosophy to base such a position on. I hope it's something better than "Because, because, it's not really fair!"
Who told you it was going to be "fair", son? The Israelis are the very people who actually know very well how much of a joke that "fair" thing is.
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Post by miscmisc on Jul 31, 2014 5:44:15 GMT 1
Rallies against Israel, in Berlin. Er, no, it's not neo-Nazis demanding the extermination of Jews. Nor are they Arab/Muslim immigrants who clearly have lots of "beef" with Israel. These people are Jewish Israelis. Dissidents who left Israel to live in a more liberal, peaceful country, which in their case was, ironically, Germany.   |
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Post by miscmisc on Jul 31, 2014 5:58:10 GMT 1
I've come to the conclusion that Jodi Rudoren, the Israeli bureau chief @ New York Times, is actually the IDF spokesperson.
"The Israel Defense Forces says..."
"The IDF says..."
"The IDF says..."
"The IDF says..."
All she does every day on the pages of New York Times is parrot what "the IDF says".
Why even pretends to be a journalist?
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Post by miscmisc on Jul 31, 2014 6:09:42 GMT 1
BTW, in case you still don't know, the majority of white fascists/neo-Nazis in Europe support Israel. Their immediate "enemies" are the "leftists" (or "cultural Marxists", as Norwegian mass murderer Anders Breivik called them in his "manifesto") and immigrants, mostly from Muslim countries. Not Jews. Israel is rather their strategic ally. Not everyone of them may not go as far as Breivik, who verbally jerked off to the Israeli flag, but they surely like what Israel has been doing. Of course it's a bonus that the country is trying to "reclaim" as many diaspora Jews as possible. Stronger, bigger Israel = fewer Jews in Europe. It's the same old argument which goes back to 1920's.
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Post by miscmisc on Jul 31, 2014 9:29:35 GMT 1
It's amazing that how much the perception of "Jewish" has changed, ideology-wise. In the post-war period, "Jewish intellectuals" pretty much meant socialists/social democrats/communists/etc in both the US and Europe. Left, in a nutshell. If you asked the average non-Jewish American back then what their image of a "Jewish elite" was like, it would've often been a bespectacled left-wing university professor with beard arguing for the gender/racial equality, or even socialized means of production. Meanwhile, in Europe, you would find the vast majority of Jewish politicians/elites in the social democratic/socialist camp. And of course, it's not just the post-war period. When the Nazis, some of the most rabid anti-communists/anti-socialists in history, accused the Jewish population in the Weimar Republic of being the "agents for evil communists on the mission to destroy Germany from within", they relied on the fact that so many of the socialist/communist leaders in Germany were indeed Jewish, not to mention Karl Marx himself. Even in an extreme case like apartheid South Africa, the disproportionate percentage of the "whites" who fought against apartheid in solidarity with Nelson Mandela and Co. were Jewish South Africans, all of whom were leftist. But it seems to me that something changed around the late '80s. One notable thing in the European context is the world of French philosophy. French postmodernism was THE thing among the leftists and left-minded people back then, virtually everywhere at least in the so-called "first world", and the last giant from that movement was Jacques Derrida, the father of so-called deconstructionism, a French philosopher of the Algerian Sephardi Jewish background. His books sold like hotcakes not only in France, but also in the US, in Germany, in Japan, in Brazil, etc. And when that "boom" ended, who replaced him as the most well-known "philosopher" in France? Yes, Bernard-Henri Levy, another intellectual of the Algerian Jewish background - of vastly, vastly different philosophy. Like day and night, Jekyll and Hyde. Levy is trying to "save Ukraine from Russia's dirty hands" and justify the siege of Gaza as we speak. He enthusiastically supported the Nato bombing in Libya, and hasn't even mentioned it lately (Oh, I wonder why...). He was a reactionary "thinker" when he started appearing on TV and books, and still is. He's pretty much the definition of "reactionary", beyond the right/left, conservative/liberal construct. He's virtually indistinguishable from your typical American neocon. Oh yes, neocons. They started drawing attention around the same time in America. They are largely former leftists who got converted to the strange version of conservatism. And many of the leading figures in that movement are Jewish. We wouldn't have neoconservatism without Richard Perle and Irvin Kristol, both of whom are Jewish. The majority of neocon writers on newspapers and whatnot are Jewish. And that's no secret even to the average American. They do NOT represent the majority of Jewish Americans, really far from it, but they disproportionately occupy the camera time and newspaper/magazine spaces. They are by far the most visible Jewish intellectuals today. All of these people have succeeded in hijacking the public image of "Jewish intellectual". And unfortunately, it is hopelessly intertwined with the issue of Israel-Palestine. So, I wonder: if you ask the average American today what the image of a "Jewish elite" is like, what would be their answer? I suspect it's not a "university professor arguing for the end of apartheid" anymore. |
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Post by miscmisc on Jul 31, 2014 15:52:08 GMT 1
More than 1,200 Gazans have been killed, and reportedly more than 80% of them are civilians.
I said over and over again that civilian deaths are inevitable in this kind of asymmetric (= bigger force/offense vs. smaller force/defense) urban warfare. But 80%+ is way too high. That's usually the sign of the invading side losing self-restraint (or/and not caring much about civilian casualties in the first place), being absolutely incompetent, or both.
And I suspect "both" is the answer.
The IDF has lost more than 50 soldiers already. That makes it 200-240 vs. 50-60 in terms of military casualties. Roughly 4 : 1 ratio.
I'm telling you, that's way too low for Israel. They aren't fighting Hezbollah. It's Hamas, who is supposed to be much, much weaker. But the ratio is about the same as the one in 2006 Lebanon War, which Israel lost big.
War is not about winning battles. That's why I said Israel will never win this "war". But it looks even worse than that for Israel now. I'm not there on the ground, so can't say for sure, but it seems to me that Israel is hardly even winning the battles.
I don't think that they expected to lose this many soldiers. 50-60 may not look like such a big number, but believe me, it is for the IDF. They are not used to losing so many of their soldiers, and absolutely squeamish over their own casualties. And the point is that they did not expect this. They are not prepared for a long war where the casualty number on the Israeli side could potentially go up to three-digit and beyond.
Now, Israel, the US and their Arab allies like the Sisi dictatorship coup government in Egypt (does anyone even remember the "Arab Spring" now?) will have to find a way to prevent the whole thing from looking like a Hamas victory in any shape or form. But it's getting increasingly harder and harder to find a face-saving exit for Israel. The US, whose Senate voted 100-0 (!) in support of Israel, will help them out on the propaganda front and UN front with their veto power, to blame every single thing on Hamas basically, but even Americans have limits in terms of what they can do. They won't sacrifice everything for Israel. At some point, Netanyahu will have to pull the plug. The problem, though, is that most Jewish Israeli citizens won't accept that, unless they will have achieved a significant, tangible victory by then. Being called a "quitter" is pretty much a death sentence for a war-time Israeli Prime Minister, as the Israeli history has shown.
I don't know what is going to happen now, but all the events so far point to an Israeli defeat, a pretty big one considering what Israel has lost over this catastrophe, and how much their own actions bolstered not only anti-Israeli sentiment, but plain old antisemitism in many parts of the world too. Due to the long history of the Palestinian struggle, people in general care a lot more about Palestinians than they do South Lebanese people. And youtube and SNS are far more widely used today than they were in 2006.
Will Israel be able to even win a lousy T-shirt in return? I don't know. Without some kind of a military/political breakthrough some time soon, they will have to spin their way out of it, just like they did in Lebanon. The Israeli voters didn't buy that spin at all last time, though.
The whole thing has been absolutely disastrous for Gazans, but almost equally so for the other side thus far, albeit in a different way
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Post by miscmisc on Jul 31, 2014 17:06:25 GMT 1
This is from last week:
That's Bibi Netanyahu embracing and thanking John Hagee.
In case you don't know who John Hagee is, just watch the short clip above. If you are too scared to take a look, well, where should I start? He's one of the nuttiest evangelical Christians in America. Does that sound scary enough?
I've attended his seminar/lecture once, down in North Carolina. Holy shit was that wild. I happened to be the only ethnic Asian among the audience, and people were so nice to me. Sooooo nice in the creepiest way. I still remember the creepy guy who said with a big smile, "Helloooo thereee! We are open to ALL people, absolutely ALL people! What's your name, Sir?" His emphasis on "ALL" was saying loudly, "EVEN YOU". A lady next to the guy, clearly his superior, noticed the obvious undertone of what he said, and practically kicked him away in the butt, saying, "Sorry, he gets over-excited when he sees someone new!" Still creeps me out remembering the whole evening. I could write a short book about that experience (I almost did, actually), but I digress.
He's a big believer in End Times. Meaning Christ will come back and The End. Soon enough. It's impossible to sum up his nuttiness, but I'll quote from wikipedia:
Yup. A Christian loony.
Just imagine your country's head of state having to embrace such a fruitcake.
This is the sad reality of Israel today. I almost feel sorry for Netanyahu.
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