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Post by miscmisc on Jul 11, 2014 7:35:25 GMT 1
Due to the missile threats and all that, the hipsters in Tel Aviv are forced to subsist on sushi: www.timesofisrael.com/in-tel-aviv-keep-calm-and-tip-the-sushi-guy/Tel Aviv really is that kind of a place. They live there like nothing bad could ever happen to them. Gaza is as foreign to them as it is to you. As far as they are concerned, the Palestinian issue doesn't even exist. They don't see it, don't smell it. Old town Jaffa may remind them of the Palestinian heritage of the place, but even that place is being "cleansed" of Arabness every day. All the tragedies and deaths in Gaza could be happening on Mars as far as they are concerned, particularly since the frequency of terrorist attacks dramatically decreased. But like I said, it's a sand castle. I think most of the youngsters enjoying the first-world living standards, latest music/fashion and gorgeous Mediterranean beaches there are actually aware of that. But they need that fantasy, delusion, precisely because of the hopelessness of the political situation. It's just sushi, but it keeps them calm.
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Post by miscmisc on Jul 11, 2014 7:51:56 GMT 1
Kiyv Post, the English language newspaper in Kiev, Ukraine, calls for "jailing Communists" in op-ed: www.kyivpost.com/opinion/editorial/prosecute-communists-355538.htmlKiyv Post is basically a toy for the oligarchs in Ukraine, so there is nothing surprising about the tone of the piece, but it's certainly unsettling to see such keywords as "traitors" and "terrorists" used so liberally there. Call me an over-dramatic prick, but Germany/Japan in the early 1930s is certainly what it reminds me of.
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Post by miscmisc on Jul 12, 2014 0:50:47 GMT 1
[heavily edited to make it much longer than it was]
I'll cut the bullshit out and illustrate what happened in Israel, in the chronological order, since you would never know what the hell is going on if you only watch/listen to the mainstream media, who don't even try to report the basic facts.
1. A couple of Palestinians kidnapped three Jewish settlers (teens) in so-called "occupied territories". 2. The Israeli government determined that it was done by Hamas - not simply a couple of members independently, but the entire organization - and mobilized the military for the operation to "rescue" the kids, while Hamas denied any involvement in the incident. 4. After a month or so of the intense "rescue operations", which left a number of Palestinian casualties and Hamas in utter chaos, the kids were found dead. 3. Hamas retaliated by sending missiles. 4. Israel "responded" in the usual fashion. 5. More than 100 people have been already killed (many of whom were, as you have already come to expect, children) on the Palestinian side, whereas zero on the Israeli side, excluding the three kids which (supposedly) started the whole thing.
These are "facts", and I'm sure you can already see which one is ridiculously overreacting. But there are a couple of points to add. They are based on the information that I got and my own analysis. So take them or leave them.
- The Israeli government knew the three kids were already dead, but didn't have to disclose any information due to the gag order on the media. They didn't do all those things to "rescue" the kids. The whole thing was designed to simply inflict significant damage to Hamas and put the organization into absolute chaos. And the Israelis certainly knew that Hamas would have no choice other than retaliate after being suddenly attacked to such an extent.
- The Israeli government hasn't provided any proof that Hamas ordered the suspects to kill the three settlers. It's fishy, to say the least, because it makes no sense. The last thing Hamas would do, especially at this timing, is try to stir up the shit. Hamas and the PLO were - finally! - going to form a unified government to gain more legitimacy for the Palestinian cause at the international stage, which Israel absolutely did not want to see happen.
- I repeat: the Israeli government was horrified of the prospect of the Palestinians having a unified government.
Just put all these things together, and reach your own conclusion. It's absolutely clear to me who the aggressor is. This is not even a "conflict" in the true sense of the word.
And no matter what they do, they won't be able to kill the Palestinian effort, or destroy Hamas. What's going to happen is the same old stuff - lots of people losing their lives for no reason, particularly and overwhelmingly on the Palestinian side. But I don't know if it's going to be just the "same old stuff". Things are changing, slowly yet steadily. Fewer people buy the bullshit that Israel sells today.
It seems to me as if the Israelis are doing their best to further delegitimize themselves in the eyes of history. Do they really think that this can go on forever?
Americans in particular ought to be ashamed of basically supporting such behaviors by overlooking them and even financing their military expenses. It's a bloody shame that most Americans don't even know the amount of financial/political support that their government gives to Israel every year.
Don't be afraid of the ridiculous accusation of antisemitism. They throw that even at Jews, so the word, at least when it came from them, doesn't mean anything anymore. That's all they've got, which means they are not in a strong position. Believing, almost naively, in justice ought to be what makes one an American. I beg all Americans to be aware of what's going on in that part of the world and in their own government.
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Post by miscmisc on Jul 12, 2014 2:12:12 GMT 1
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Post by miscmisc on Jul 12, 2014 2:52:46 GMT 1
OK, again, I'll cut all the bullshit out and illustrate what's happening in Ukraine, because if you only blah blah blah you know the rest:
1. It's a civil war.
That's all. The fact that Kiev/US/Nato desperately try to pretend that it isn't is all you need to know. It's inconvenient for them that it's a civil war, because a civil war presupposes that both sides have objective local reasons to fight, and that there are fundamental disagreement between them regarding the most fundamental issue - the definition of their "nationhood" - regardless of which side you would prefer. That's inconvenient for those who want to blame all on Russia. And that's why Kiev and the oligarchs continue to call the rebels "terrorists".
Seriously, the word "terrorism/terrorist" has become the most meaningless Orwellian word in human history. We should strike it off the dictionary in the next edition. You could replace the word with "pikachu" or "Tim Howard's beard" or whatever the fuck, and the sentences would still make the same amount of sense. That's how bad it has become.
"The city hall was captured yesterday, but our brave troops are moving in to get rid of those vicious Bob Sapp's gonads today," government spokesman in Kiev said.
Anyway, all the shit comes from the fact that there is no legitimate Ukrainian nationhood. One guy says it's blue, and the other guy says no, I hate the blue, we should go separate ways, bye. And the first guy says "Not so fast!" Simple as that. The issue of Russia comes into that preexisting context, and not the other way around. But the US/Kiev/EU want you to believe it's the other way around.
So, it's a civil war, and not very different from the American Civil War, except:
1. The North represented a legitimate federal government democratically elected; Kiev was a coup-government undemocratically chosen.
2. The North recognized the South as the legitimate foe; Kiev calls the opposing side "terrorists".
3. People in the South were by and large unified to cheer for their war effort; the majority of people in Eastern/Southern Ukraine are ambivalent, fearing the political/financial consequences.
4. Most of the elites in the South continued to fight the North until the bitter end; many of the oligarchs in Ukraine switched sides for their economic interest.
5. After the Civil War, the US economy had an economic boom, which enabled the North, the winners, to shower the South, the losers, with lots of investment; Not a fucking chance in hell in Ukraine.
The key point is #1. You can cheer for whichever side you want, but since the Kiev view dominates our media, I will continue to call bullshit on the ridiculous claims they make on the daily basis.
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Post by miscmisc on Jul 14, 2014 19:44:57 GMT 1
Holy crap, America.
Change since 2002: - Harper's Index, August 2014
Wage deflation + HUGE debt inflation. Lethal combo. And we are talking about the kind of debt that is immune even to bankruptcy proceedings, in exchange for a piece of paper with a college stamp on it that might turn out useless after all. Hell, now it's even immune to your death, as you need a cosigner to take the loans, which wasn't the case back in my days.
I fail to see how this can go on.
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Post by miscmisc on Jul 14, 2014 20:20:45 GMT 1
Some numbers/factoid regarding Israel:
- At least 168 Palestinians were killed in Gaza in last week, and 80% (133 people) are civilians, of whom 21% (36) are children.
- Approximately zero Jewish Israelis have been killed.
- There are more Israeli citizens, both Palestinian and Jewish (so-derogatory-called "leftist"), injured by Jewish fascist/racist thugs than Jewish Israelis harmed by missiles from Gaza.
Yet, according to the BBC and American mainstream media, Hamas in Gaza are the scary ones.
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Post by h on Jul 14, 2014 20:33:33 GMT 1
"you're either with us, or you're with Tim Howards Beard." - George W Bush
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Post by h on Jul 14, 2014 20:33:50 GMT 1
i couldnt resist.
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Post by K1power on Jul 14, 2014 21:24:24 GMT 1
Sadly, out of all places, you'll find more truth about the Gaza situation on Facebook than on most Western mainstream media outlets.
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Post by h on Jul 14, 2014 21:58:16 GMT 1
Sadly, out of all places, you'll find more truth about the Gaza situation on Facebook than on most Western mainstream media outlets. western media outlets have sucked balls for decades. you dont get smarter watching that shit.
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Post by h on Jul 14, 2014 21:58:37 GMT 1
i come to the random rant thread for my news updates.... not really joking either. lol.
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Post by Jofeljoh! on Jul 15, 2014 8:42:48 GMT 1
Does anyone have good reccomendations for books/sites/resources about the whole Israel/Palestina conflict?
Pro-Israel, Pro-Palestina, and possibly some books that don't take obvious sides? I want to know more about this in depth, and with all the conflicting news, opinions, it's just so complex.
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Post by miscmisc on Jul 15, 2014 16:52:48 GMT 1
I have no "pro-Israel" books to recommend. They all fall flat on their faces, and that's inevitable given the situation. The most "convincing" ones are usually written by liberal Zionist Jewish American authors, and I'd only recommend them if you think it is fun to read someone trying desperately to argue for what their hearts should tell them is silly. One of the most "subtle" ones is Peter Beinart's The Crisis of Zionism. As the title suggests, it's not an Israel-uber-alles book, but actually kind of ends up being one. He fiercely criticizes Israel for its illegal settlement building in the West Bank, and pretty much demonizes the current right-wing government for its jingoism and recklessness, but ultimately, his view is so astonishingly Jew-centric that Palestinians are a mere uncivilized sidekick in his grand Jewish morality play, or the circle-jerk of the bleeding-heart Jewish liberals.
It's hard to recommend "pro-Palestine" books, too, because this issue to me isn't about pro-anything. It's more about pro-justice, and about whether you should tolerate a certain version of colonialism in the 21st century.
Britain, France, Spain, Portugal, the Netherlands etc. had their share of fun with colonialism in the 19th century and before. They often wiped out the whole population of a region, and got away with it. Because there was no such thing as "universal human rights" back then.
Israel is a late comer, a very-very-late comer. A South Africa who came several hundred years late. They came into the land where there were already people living, and expelled (or killed, of course) many of them and took their houses. And systematically discriminated the indigenous people. It's the same as almost any other settlement project, including the foundation of the US of A. One of the Zionist founders indeed called Israel a project to build "an outpost of civilization in the midst of Barbarism", and you've heard the same lousy argument from the British colonialists and others.
The difference is that the US did it to the Native Americans a long time ago; the Japanese did it to the indigenous Ainu people in Hokkaido a couple of hundred years ago; Israel did in the 20th century, mostly in the second half of it, and a shit load of people who witnessed the ongoing process are still alive.
So, from the Israeli point of view, the criticism is a bit rich coming from Europeans and Americans. It's certainly true that as brutal as the Israelis were, they were perhaps nowhere near as bad as the Europeans. The old-fashioned colonial "solution" to this kind of a problem was wipe out the uppity population to make it bloody easy for the colonizers. They would've at least had a state where the Jewish people could easily control the tiny, tiny minority Palestinians, unlike the millions that they have to deal with now in reality, who might've lived rather quietly like the few Native Americans left did in America. Israel could've done that (they have nukes after all), but didn't.
The question is whether that is something admirable, and whether that means we should tolerate it today. 60% of the people who live in that open concentration camp called Gaza used to live in Israel proper, and got kicked out of their houses by the Israeli settlers back in the 1940-50s. They are half-starved in the strip of land only about 30 km long and 8km wide, sandwiched between the sea and the wall guarded by brutal IDF soldiers who effectively have the license to shoot for the tiniest reason. Imagine 1.7 million people jammed into such a nasty, tiny space. Imagine the sense of humiliation. I'm actually surprised that much, much more of them aren't actively engaged in terrorism. I'm sure I would if I were a Gazan.
It's true that we can't just tell the Jewish Israelis to leave the place now, but no one, other than the wackos, is proposing that. Like I said, Israel burned the bridge time and time again, killing every single chance to bring about peace, even quasi-peace. In fact, Israel doubled down on its recklessness almost every time. If one side leaves no space for concessions, you can never have anything resembling an actual negotiation. I'll quote Gary Brecher to sum up the situaton:
If you want to know what's going on now, at this moment, in Israel, Max Blumenthal's Goliath is a good book. Yeah yet another Jewish American author, but he's what you might call "pro-Palestine" or anti-Zionist. The title is a dig at this idea repeated by the Israeli apologists that Israel is the David fighting the Arab Goliath surrounding him. He's saying that it's the other way around: Israel is the Goliath. The book offers no solution, but describes the hardly-known reality on the ground vividly. It's a thick, thick book, though.
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Post by miscmisc on Jul 15, 2014 17:29:19 GMT 1
Someone attempted to edit the Wikipedia entry for "Crimea" to assert a more "Western" view. en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=616961289&oldid=616860312From: To: It was done by Mr./Ms. 143.231.249.141. And according to Dr. Whois: NetRange: 143.231.0.0 - 143.231.255.255 CIDR: 143.231.0.0/16 OriginAS: NetName: HOUSE2 NetHandle: NET-143-231-0-0-1 Parent: NET-143-0-0-0-0 NetType: Direct Assignment RegDate: 1990-10-17 Updated: 2010-05-25 Ref: whois.arin.net/rest/net/NET-143-231-0-0-1OrgName: U.S. House of RepresentativesOrgId: ISUHR Address: 2nd and D St SW City: Washington StateProv: DC PostalCode: 20515 Country: US And his/her edit history suggests that he/she is a hard worker.
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