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Post by Fox on Nov 7, 2016 1:10:30 GMT 1
I am hoping some Euro amigos can help me better understand the local scene. The two best seem to be K-1 Europe and Enfusion, but which one is better? I have also heard of Oktagon, Super Kombat and Respect. I'm probably missing some other good ones. How do you think they compare with each other? To clarify I mean kickboxing with low kicks, not the above the waist style.
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Post by Shadess on Nov 7, 2016 3:11:48 GMT 1
I'd say Enfusion/W5/KOK/Superkombat in no particular order. Ask the Dutch and Enfusion is magical, ask a Romanian and Superkombat is massive and so on and so on.
Superkombat has had the best TV distribution but that's ending and we'll see where they go now. Enfusion had a great 2015 and then they decided locking themselves behind internet ppv's was a good idea. I don't see anyone actually talking about Enfusion shows anymore other than facebook Dutchies who visit the shows or post news about them. Nobody seems to be very enthusiastic about KOK but I'd say quite easily they have the highest average attendance out of the 4. W5 quality varies but they have some excellent fighters too and when they really try, maybe the best presentation p4p in kickboxing.
Think K-1 Global peeps in Europe have basically done 1 show now so who knows what they are. It was nice but let's see where they go. Respect did a couple okay shows that not very many people saw and now haven't posted anything on fb for a month and a half so yeah...
I guess FFC deserves a honorable mention too.
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Post by Shadess on Nov 7, 2016 3:29:46 GMT 1
If I could get a nice mix of the "main 4" that'd be great. Get some of the Enfusion people who clearly seem to be capable. Bang them in the head with a hammer till they understood that walled garden wanting to control everything bullshit is bad mmkay... Presentation of W5 and some of those sweet Russian/Ukrainian fighters all these other promotions flat out ignore. Whatever wizardry KOK does to get people to attend their shows and attract local media attention. SK's talent/continued dumb luck to be able to make characters. Maybe Irimia to run it all since he seems the swaggiest out of these promotors  Oh and I guess if you could somehow have it be called K-1 then that'd be great too. |
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Post by dvewlsh on Nov 7, 2016 4:09:51 GMT 1
When it comes to presentation and entertainment W5 is hard to beat.
I don't mind KOK and FFC. SuperKombat has grown increasingly more difficult to watch and Enfusion just looks like amateur hour with the most transparent matchmaking anywhere.
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Post by K1power on Nov 7, 2016 13:22:11 GMT 1
I think it's very hard to rank the European promotion as to me the way they rank in relation to each other changes regularly, depending on who most recently put on the best show(s).
So I'm going to just name drop some the most notable ones, with some details here and there.
Enfusion - I've mentioned this before and to me they are basically "It's Showtime - Light". They have some of the same strengths (occassionally great fights, good stable talent) and weaknesses (extreme fighter protection that sometimes leads to questionable matchmaking) as It's Showtime, just that they are on a shoestring budget by comparison.
Tatneft Cup - They put on interesting fights every now and then, but they have a peculiar ruleset and every event is held in the same Tatneft Arena.
W5 - Good mixture of production and talent. I must admit I don't regularly watch their events due to a lack of consistent coverage.
Mix Fight Gala - German based promotion that has been showing some growth recently, their upcoming card with Zimmerman and Kehl looks fun.
Oktagon - Basically the Italian version of Mix Fight Gala.
SuperKombat - They had great years in 2011 and 2012, but ever since it has been going downhill. I must admit though, from what I've seen from them this year, I've actually liked most events. My big issue with them is their way of doing business sometimes disgusts me. A lot of promotions protect their stable fighters, but SK goes that extra mile to make sure their guys win. Last minute bookings against mostly over-the-hill have-been names that are often on baaad losing streaks and so on. Luckily, even with those measures taken it often blows up in their faces. I don't blame the fighters though and I often applaud the Romanian guys that test themselves outside of SuperKombat, even if the results are mixed.
KOK - Comparable to SuperKombat, but with more fair matchmaking and better looking production values. On the downside, they ooze "Eastern Europe" even more than SK does and feature even less international talent on their cards. Had Ruslan Karaev actually made his comeback there like planned it might've been their big breakthrough.
FFC - Their shows usually have great production value, but serious lack of promotion and sometimes uninspired matchmaking are very notable weaknesses.
A1 WCC - Promotion that puts on fun events with some decent talent and at least some level of TV coverage as their events pop up on EuroSport every now and then. Unfortunately their reach is restricted as most of their events are held either in the southeast of the Netherlands or just over the German border.
ACB Kickboxing - A bit of a younger promotion, but I liked their recent card that featured Igor Bugaenko and Luis Tavares in the main attraction.
Nuit des Champions - French promotion, a bit more of an annual show, really.
Bellator Kickboxing - They held like what, 2-3 events in Europe now? We need some more time/events to properly be able to judge them.
Same goes for Respect, who held a handful of shows, but as mentioned we haven't heard much recently.
There are probably some others that at least deserve a mention and don't come to mind, but I think this covers a good amount.
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I can't really name K-1 Global or Glory in the same breath as the above promotions. Even on life support K-1 Global attracts more views, because of the K-1 name. As for Glory, despite all their flaws they obviously easily stand above the other Euro promotions as well.
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Post by karaevfan on Nov 8, 2016 23:59:42 GMT 1
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Post by Shadess on Nov 9, 2016 0:37:12 GMT 1
KOK is okay. Stanislav Renita who fought and lost at K-1 and Glory is kind of the upper tier of their usual level so that tells you sorta the level. However, it's also the place where Kyshenko and Zhuravlev kinda made their "comebacks" into the sport so you have had some really nice stuff there too. They've kinda dropped off a little after Eurosport was done with them though so it's a bit of a weird time for them too. The odd thing is you can watch their undercards/superfight series equivalent easy on fightbox but the maincards basically don't air anywhere you can possibly watch. Fightbox always has streams around or you can just do a free week trial on their site for a stream. ACB is just okay too but it usually streams for free in great quality on their youtube and seems like there's never any another event happening at the same time so easy to watch if you're around when it's on. They seemed to post pictures of signing just about every other top Russian fighter but Artem Levin leading up to this year but so far haven't seen a lot of them actually fight. www.youtube.com/channel/UCLGGGhIs6FFRgwR3sqeZ7KQ |
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Post by Shadess on Nov 9, 2016 0:57:03 GMT 1
They just manage to rub me the wrong way and I don't even hate them AT ALL. Just stop saying your better than Glory or competing with Glory or even with them or whatever it is even the boss said at the league announcement presser and what they clearly tell some of their fighters to say at times too. Also the stuff those totally not Enfusion related posters said about some of the Glory fighters being Golden Glory guys and the Marcus title fights is just hilarious. A ton of the Enfusion fighters are more or less also managed by the same people and I've said it before, a lot of the Enfusion title fights are completely random. Barlow for example is a very good fighter but she is not fighting anyone on her level at Enfusion and Meksen who beat her isn't being brought in to fight her there. Meanwhile the commentary on her fights is along the lines of she is the best, women are scared to fight her and they have trouble finding opponents for her. Sorry but that is just complete nonsense. Other times I like Shoreman's commentary he often doesn't sugarcoat it when a fight isn't great or the extra weight Lazaar carries stuff like that I really like when they're being honest. Verlinden and Kyshenko beat their champs in non-title fights, because why would they put the title on the line when it'd actually be probable their fighter would lose to fighters not managed by them. To their credit at least Wilnis fought for the title though. Oh and have to mention the time their employee under his own name tried to delete most of Enfusion's wiki page to basically just redirect to enfusion's website. That is one of the more brilliant idea's I've seen out of any promotion ever. Yes, sabotage one of the first google hits and most valuable pages your promotion could have in all of internet why don't you. Other companies literally pay for wiki pages to be made for their companies, get fluff pieces posted about them in other sites just to qualify for a wiki page - Enfusion wanted to ~delete theirs. Brilliant. Get some of the Enfusion people who clearly seem to be capable. Bang them in the head with a hammer till they understood that walled garden wanting to control everything bullshit is bad mmkay... I was only half joking here. I don't run a promotion or anything like that I get it can be super hard but still some of the things they do...just...don't. Not trying to delete your own wiki page is pretty inexpensive, free actually. Never even thinking about doing such a thing saves you time and effort too. |
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Post by karaevfan on Nov 10, 2016 0:47:40 GMT 1
KOK is okay. Stanislav Renita who fought and lost at K-1 and Glory is kind of the upper tier of their usual level so that tells you sorta the level. However, it's also the place where Kyshenko and Zhuravlev kinda made their "comebacks" into the sport so you have had some really nice stuff there too. They've kinda dropped off a little after Eurosport was done with them though so it's a bit of a weird time for them too. The odd thing is you can watch their undercards/superfight series equivalent easy on fightbox but the maincards basically don't air anywhere you can possibly watch. Fightbox always has streams around or you can just do a free week trial on their site for a stream. ACB is just okay too but it usually streams for free in great quality on their youtube and seems like there's never any another event happening at the same time so easy to watch if you're around when it's on. They seemed to post pictures of signing just about every other top Russian fighter but Artem Levin leading up to this year but so far haven't seen a lot of them actually fight. www.youtube.com/channel/UCLGGGhIs6FFRgwR3sqeZ7KQGotcha. I'll check out the KOK trial and ACB youtube channel thanks! Been looking for a league that produces regional "just bleed" goodness. That just strikes me as being silly. Enfusion a very odd Fascistic streak of needing to control their message going on. |
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Post by dvewlsh on Nov 10, 2016 1:28:47 GMT 1
I've dealt with some whackos in the fight business, we're talking people trying to pay me off to put one of their fighters in the rankings to ensure that they get a Wikipedia page, trying to pay for increased coverage and a whole lot in between that, but Enfusion is a certain level of strange.
I'm not sure what their end game is outside of appealing to the Dutch-Moroccan population. Their shows appeal to just about no one outside of that area, their talent is booked in such a hilarious, transparent manner and the shows look like a bad local event.
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