|
|
Post by dvewlsh on Nov 28, 2017 1:01:58 GMT 1
Don't be surprised if some of these former UFC fighters do fairly well in kickboxing and specifically in Glory, especially at the bigger weight classes of 185 pounds or greater where the talent pool is more limited using a combination of size, strength, aggressiveness, toughness, punching power and mediocre kicking technique. Dustin Jacoby took that all the way to a Middleweight title shot. I dunno, Pat Barry burned out pretty quickly in kickboxing. I feel like Jacoby is an extreme example because he transitioned everything to kickboxing. He also had GLORY's backing and attempts to make him their American "star," which included training expeditions, a lot of featured air-time and so forth. That was also a different era where Spike TV was explicit that GLORY needed to build American stars and pushed him, a former UFC fighter, as someone they should invest heavily in. His work ethic and dedication are what pushed him as far as he's gone. Not sure about Camozzi or Thiago Silva. Camozzi seems to be genuinely interested in the switch, who knows about Silva. The optics on pushing Silva aren't exactly great. |
|
|
|
Post by JustBleedFan on Nov 28, 2017 7:58:30 GMT 1
Don't be surprised if some of these former UFC fighters do fairly well in kickboxing and specifically in Glory, especially at the bigger weight classes of 185 pounds or greater where the talent pool is more limited using a combination of size, strength, aggressiveness, toughness, punching power and mediocre kicking technique. Dustin Jacoby took that all the way to a Middleweight title shot. I dunno, Pat Barry burned out pretty quickly in kickboxing. I feel like Jacoby is an extreme example because he transitioned everything to kickboxing. He also had GLORY's backing and attempts to make him their American "star," which included training expeditions, a lot of featured air-time and so forth. That was also a different era where Spike TV was explicit that GLORY needed to build American stars and pushed him, a former UFC fighter, as someone they should invest heavily in. His work ethic and dedication are what pushed him as far as he's gone. Not sure about Camozzi or Thiago Silva. Camozzi seems to be genuinely interested in the switch, who knows about Silva. The optics on pushing Silva aren't exactly great. Will be interesting to see how the oddsmakers handicap these fights as I have to figure that Glory is giving these MMA fighters reasonable matchups in their Glory debuts. I don't know anything about these opponents specifically, but John King who Thiago Silva is facing is 7-4-1 and Kyle Weickhardt who Chris Camozzi is facing is 8-1 overall, and both are making their Glory debuts. How good are they and who did they fight? Unfortunately there is really no complete database for kickboxing like BoxRec for boxing or Sherdog or Tapology for MMA. |
|
|
|
Post by dvewlsh on Nov 28, 2017 23:30:38 GMT 1
Do you bet a lot? You talk about oddsmakers a lot here. Just curious.
I usually find the odds for kickboxing fights to be wildly off. I worked a bit with the MMA Oddsbreaker guys and would always have to contort myself to explain why the odds were what they were on 5Dimes. Like Meksen an underdog against Van Soest is fucking WILD.
|
|
|
|
Post by JustBleedFan on Nov 29, 2017 1:12:16 GMT 1
Do you bet a lot? You talk about oddsmakers a lot here. Just curious. I usually find the odds for kickboxing fights to be wildly off. I worked a bit with the MMA Oddsbreaker guys and would always have to contort myself to explain why the odds were what they were on 5Dimes. Like Meksen an underdog against Van Soest is fucking WILD. Yes, I'm a regular combat sports bettor, mostly on MMA & boxing including the UFC and lots of the smaller promotions too. There are lot more moneylines, over/unders and props plus sometimes even live betting for MMA & boxing than there are for kickboxing. With kickboxing unfortunately there are only very limited markets offered regularly for Glory in recent years and rarely anything else. You are correct that the oddsmakers are often less knowledgeable about kickboxing. My biggest single win on any wager this year was a value play on Guto Inocente as a +1200 to +1300 underdog vs Benjamin Adegbuyi on a Glory card. I won about $2400 on that bout and one of my wealthy betting friends that tailed me went really deep and won over $50,000. I'm waiting with bated breath for the Glory 48 NYC lines to drop on any sportsbook I can bet at. What book released lines on Meksen/Van Soest already? Hopefully none of the linesetters are reading this thread, because as much as I have won on Timebomb in her kickboxing and couple of MMA fights, I'm feeling the same way you are for this title defense. |
|
|
|
Post by dvewlsh on Nov 29, 2017 2:23:04 GMT 1
You know, I'm not sure which one did. I talked to someone from SportsBettingDime and they told me she was a 9/11 favorite over Meksen as of a week ago. It was more a few days prior to that, but they didn't tell me which book had published the line.
|
|
|
|
Post by Shadess on Nov 29, 2017 2:44:55 GMT 1
"Glory 48 NYC- VanNostrand vs Boynazarov" Man that thread title you posted on sherdog makes me...I don't even know. Just sighed deep. IF we went by naming the events with the maincard headliners this year: Wilnis vs. Adesanya Vakhitov vs. Cavalari Doumbe vs. Kongolo Marcus vs. Wilnis Gerges vs. Hron Doumbe vs. Holzken Inocente vs. Adegbuiy Groenhart vs. Doumbe Roosmalen vs. Adamchuk Pereira vs. Marcus Vakhitov vs. Machado then VanNostrand vs. Boynazarov oof. and that's coming off of me being quite pleasantly surprised by Boynazarov's last outing. We knew it wasn't the strongest card ever but damn you for labelling it like that!  |
|
|
|
Post by JustBleedFan on Nov 29, 2017 4:05:20 GMT 1
It's alright Shadess, just embrace it like I do. It's fights on a high quality stream and in English- at least for me. It will probably be entertaining. Not every card has to be mega star-powered or somehow a bigger and better extravaganza than the last time. There's nothing wrong with it just being another fight card sandwiched in between some other better fight cards from the same promotion. Just be glad that they keep putting on cards for the sport you love. That's how I live my life every week with the UFC, MMA and boxing too. When the huge events happen, great. When the lesser events happen, that's cool too. Hell, I'm going to be watching the TUF 26 Finale and then Bellator 189 live which are on at the same time Friday night first anyway.
|
|
|
|
Post by dvewlsh on Nov 29, 2017 20:51:18 GMT 1
I'm still sorta chuckling over VanNostrand, GLORY headliner.
|
|
|
|
Post by JustBleedFan on Nov 30, 2017 1:16:59 GMT 1
I'm still sorta chuckling over VanNostrand, GLORY headliner. I like it! They both had highlight reel KOs in their last fights and with their aggressive styles this fight could be fire. Plus the stakes are significant because it establishes an interim champion to be the next challenger to unify the featherweight belt with RvR when he heals up and they work out his contract, which is refreshing because it's a new matchup either way with an opponent he hasn't fought before. |
|
|
|
Post by Shadess on Nov 30, 2017 3:15:16 GMT 1
How they got there and who gets to fight for your titles matters.
VanNostrand won a mediocre tournament via the easier bracket. Boynazarov is there when he lost to Ezbiri. Glory says Ezbiri was injured and couldn't fight, which isn't true. He just had a fight elsewhere and beat the liverkick #1 ranked LW in a fight outside of Glory.
Meanwhile, RvR isn't even ranked which just highlights how Glory's FW has been. Fighters who beat other top fighters of the world haven't been there. If you want to be the #1 league that just can't be.
RvR-VanNostrand would be a boring fight. If Boynazarov wins and gets to fight for a Glory title coming off of a loss and a win over VanNostrand...
|
|
|
|
Post by JustBleedFan on Nov 30, 2017 4:26:21 GMT 1
Is the reason RvR is not ranked on Liverkick primarily due to the method of ranking itself or is it him truly not being one of the top ten fighters in the world in this weight class? He's not listed there at featherweight, nor in his old weight class of lightweight. He apparently has to beat someone at featherweight who is already on the list, all or most of whom are fighting in Asia outside of Glory to be ranked. So he just disappeared off the rankings entirely I guess because he is unlikely to compete against those particular opponents? I know it's not easy to come up with a list without controversy, but this seems like one of the glaring omissions.
Abdellah Ezbiri is very talented based on what I saw in his recent Glory bouts and the fight from France this past weekend, which I guess he got paid well for. None of us are privy to the negotiations if there were any but hopefully he comes back to Glory in 2018 for more fights and a a title shot. Many of the European kickboxers seem to be able to come and go if they aren't one of the few under exclusive promotional contracts anywhere.
|
|
|
|
Post by karaevfan on Nov 30, 2017 6:04:04 GMT 1
Is the reason RvR is not ranked on Liverkick primarily due to the method of ranking itself or is it him truly not being one of the top ten fighters in the world in this weight class? He's not listed there at featherweight, nor in his old weight class of lightweight. He apparently has to beat someone at featherweight who is already on the list, all or most of whom are fighting in Asia outside of Glory to be ranked. So he just disappeared off the rankings entirely I guess because he is unlikely to compete against those particular opponents? I know it's not easy to come up with a list without controversy, but this seems like one of the glaring omissions. From what I remember RvR isn't on the rankings because the Liverkick rankings work on a "who beat who" method as opposed to "who seems most competitive in a one on one matchup" method. Obviously some controversy about whether that's the right method to use when talent has scattered between promotions in recent eras, but by that methodology I gotta say that it seems fair. There was a very long time when the Glory FW division really had no shine because it was just Amrani and Varga and Adamchuk fighting each other round robin style after Amrani and Varga lost to Noiri/Kubo who went onto K-1. RvR obviously poses a danger to anyone in the division, but his only wins in the division are over guys who I don't really see cracking top 10 these days (Varga, Embree, Adamchuk) or guys who are really dangerous but also have no kickboxing track record in the division (Petpanomarung). Someone who understands French on twitter was saying that the commentators mentioned that Ezbiri will be fighting Slimani in Jan and maybe looking to get back into Glory after that. Something to look forward to |
|
|
|
Post by Fox on Nov 30, 2017 8:54:25 GMT 1
Is the reason RvR is not ranked on Liverkick primarily due to the method of ranking itself or is it him truly not being one of the top ten fighters in the world in this weight class? He's not listed there at featherweight, nor in his old weight class of lightweight. He apparently has to beat someone at featherweight who is already on the list, all or most of whom are fighting in Asia outside of Glory to be ranked. So he just disappeared off the rankings entirely I guess because he is unlikely to compete against those particular opponents? I know it's not easy to come up with a list without controversy, but this seems like one of the glaring omissions. Abdellah Ezbiri is very talented based on what I saw in his recent Glory bouts and the fight from France this past weekend, which I guess he got paid well for. None of us are privy to the negotiations if there were any but hopefully he comes back to Glory in 2018 for more fights and a a title shot. Many of the European kickboxers seem to be able to come and go if they aren't one of the few under exclusive promotional contracts anywhere. Most of the FW talent is in Asia, so even though RvR is clearly very elite he wasn't able to really prove it until he fought Petpanomrung and half the people who saw that fight thought Pet should have gotten the nod. Even then Pet has very limited experience with the ruleset and scoring. Glory could get their champion ranked #1 though if RvR fought Ezbiri, who is coming off a win over Noiri the K-1 champion. |
|
|
|
Post by dvewlsh on Nov 30, 2017 9:38:47 GMT 1
Yeah.
GLORY had the top featherweights in the world, then cut them loose. Since that division is so highly competitive those guys have lost to unranked opponents, then climbed back up, etc.
I used to feel bad because it all happened while Varga was champion and he's a very nice guy. He'd ask why, without losing, he kept dropping, and it was always hard to explain "well, because Minoru Kimura lost."
|
|
|
|
Post by Shadess on Dec 1, 2017 18:36:18 GMT 1
Nevermind they're not all streamed there...
Prelims in 6h I think, timers are all wrong everywhere  |
|
