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Post by jjmanchester on Mar 18, 2018 19:56:58 GMT 1
... how would you do it?
would you slavishly copy The Ultimate Fighter / Contender Asia?
or do something different?
I personally feel like if something ain't broke don't fix it BUT at the same time the whole reality thing is kinda faded now and TUF has been shit for however many seasons
But its still a device to find and showcase new talent, so i dont know that it is completely without use.
i'm thinking of Glory; i dont know whether i would take x-amount of guys to one place and have them all stay there in the TUF model or maybe have a spread of guys across a few gyms and have the fights take place as part of the Glory event undercards, rather than in any purpose-made setting like TUF is
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Post by karaevfan on Mar 18, 2018 20:30:01 GMT 1
With the obvious preface that TUF sucks these days.
I still think what the TUF model of just gathering a bunch of dudes in putting them in proximity with each other might be the way to sell something like Glory. The average viewer you need to pull in to make something like that a success is looking for the same reality show manufactured drama that comes from the same guys being the room. TUF's been going on for so long and the UFC roster is so bloated at this point that that is played out for the UFC, but I imagine that if Glory say managed to put the likes of Doumbe and Groenhart in a room to play out their shenanigans (add Nabiyev in the room to be the Jim Halpert of the series) for a shot at a title or something, that might be funny. The characters would still be fresh and original for a lot of viewers even if they are well respected rankers.
There's been a couple other formats. Fighting reality shows are getting a resurgence in Japan. K-1 tried a version where they had a 'legend fighter' discover a protege and train them personally for a couple of months in a tournament to get a K-1/Krush contract. That was fine in so far as it showed us how guys like Masato, KID and Takeru thought about fighting and trained, but with all the guys basically not interacting with each other until the fight there was pretty limited drama and was probably only interesting to people who already cared about kickboxing
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Post by Shadess on Mar 18, 2018 21:36:35 GMT 1
Would depend on a bunch of things  As for probably more realistically and with Glory yeah some type of show focusing on a few gyms at a time. Stick a couple of their fighters on an upcoming card and follow them in preparation for that, go out and do shit with them. Maybe try and figure out some situations like, what would've been before at least, Bonjasky training Ilunga for example. Presentable legend of the sport who actually doesn't mind being in front of the camera, had a decent fighter and probably would've had some fighters to stick on an undercard too. Or just get Bonjasky if he was up to being a host and he could go around in the gyms, see the fighters, do stuff with them and talk with the coaches. If sticking with the current people I guess Todd could go around doing shit too and partnering him up for episodes with someone like Doumbe or Murthel wouldn't be bad. Been getting to know ONE a little and they do okay with their ONE Warrior Series I think. That's under the premise of a bunch of tryouts in different places though so the fighters are all pretty much complete randoms other than usually having Brandon Vera there. |
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Post by dvewlsh on Mar 20, 2018 22:08:02 GMT 1
Frankly, I wouldn't do it.
At least not a TUF clone.
GLORY's biggest problem is still a complete lack of idendtity. The weird attempts to talk about traditional martial arts blended with the bland UFC-cloned production isn't doing anything for them as it is.
I think that Shadess and Karaev are correct in saying that focusing on fighters seems like a logical thing to do.
The second biggest problem that GLORY has is that kickboxing is a sport with a history, but one that most people don't know. In the same vein, most fighters are equally unknown.
There's this weird assumption that people are gonna think that Cor is a living legend everywhere or that someone winning a Ramon Dekkers trophy means anything to a crowd who outside of probably the BeNeLux area has no clue who that is.
So while I give a shit about Peter Aerts, Ernesto Hoost, JLB, et. all, their audience, by and large, won't.
GLORY has a VERY talented video production crew, let them off leash and give them a budget with a platform, then see what they can do.
Focus on the life, training and struggles of like four fighters and don't pull any punches. Show that it's not a glamorous life.
Maybe do Rico, who is Mr. Glamour, with his gyms, his apps, his fitness programs and television appearances and show his life.
Then to contrast show someone without that life, that lives with his family still, has to work every day and training isn't a full time job.
We get small glimpses of this in some of the GLORY featurette videos, but a series would allow for a real exploration.
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Post by fartsmeller on Mar 20, 2018 22:36:21 GMT 1
Completely agree with everything that's been said re: TUF. A big part of the Glory product is already tournaments, one more is just further dilution. Not only that, if you're doing a reality show you have to be prepared for it to die after one season. If you do a tournament, you get one winner and a lot of losers. The long term promotional utility of that then becomes basically zero. Just look at how Fight Master panned out for Bellator. Nobody cared, nobody cared about the coaches, and Joe Riggs was such a known quantity that nobody cares that he won.
The mainstream reality TV shows that still survive do so on the back of personalities, and usually personalities that people already know. I'd look more towards say Overeem's documentary series than TUF. Showcase the personalities, create some context, get a narrative behind fighters and fights that's more than just what gets barked at you in the minutes before a fight by a commentator.
Of course the inherent problem with that is that there's a huge proportion of the Glory roster (and kickboxers in general) from Europe who speak English as a second or third language, and they may not always be able to carry television. The video crew are definitely talented enough to fall back on visual storytelling, but you need to pick out some stories ahead of time.
If you could get JBS to open up about his health problems for example, I'd be much more interested in hearing his story than a reality TV tournament.
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Post by K1power on Mar 20, 2018 22:39:23 GMT 1
There's this weird assumption that people are gonna think that Cor is a living legend everywhere There's this program on Dutch television that focuses on Dutch low income (white trash) neighbourhoods. In one of the episodes it shows Cor and Nick Hemmers at work at the gym. This was about two weeks ago and it's probably the only estimation of Cor that (some) general Dutch audience members have. |
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Post by jjmanchester on Mar 21, 2018 18:16:15 GMT 1
all good points everyone, thanks
I think the history of the sport and organization needs telling for sure
the thing about Ramon Dekkers... he's not widely known at all of course, outside of hardcores like us, but Cor Hemmers has a hugely high up role in Glory so it comes with him, and the Dekkers story is a legit good story. I think its a case of them needing to tell it properly. It does make sense, how its channeled into the memorial cup/tournament cup, but that story isnt told anywhere outside a subsection of the website
the TUF thing ... i see both sides. One, go for it, don't reinvent the wheel. Two, don't do it, the format is old and as someone said, Fight Master did nothing for Bellator. I did love Contender Asia though.
Story is really the thing; going deeper on the guys, telling us who these people are. I remember when Doumbe won the belt and people asking me, who is this guy? And i was like man, its crazy that there isnt a 20-30min piece on this guy out there. And he at least has had some backstory done on him; guys like Nabiyev there is nothing on and yet he is now right there in the title picture. Or like, a Vakhitov piece
budget probably a key consideration also. Glory have some talented people but if they dont have the budget to embed camera teams for five weeks, they cant make something of that level
maybe interesting to have some fights made way out - eg for this Jun 2 card in UK - and start following two or four opponents right now, trace their road from now to the ring?
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Post by jjmanchester on Mar 21, 2018 18:17:29 GMT 1
Of course the inherent problem with that is that there's a huge proportion of the Glory roster (and kickboxers in general) from Europe who speak English as a second or third language, and they may not always be able to carry television. The video crew are definitely talented enough to fall back on visual storytelling, but you need to pick out some stories ahead of time. If you could get JBS to open up about his health problems for example, I'd be much more interested in hearing his story than a reality TV tournament. all good points; the English language thing is a consistent barrier. JBS pointedly refuses to get deep into his health thing, i don't know why. |
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Post by jjmanchester on Mar 22, 2018 15:35:35 GMT 1
If you do a tournament, you get one winner and a lot of losers. The long term promotional utility of that then becomes basically zero. i suspect there's going to be some changes coming on the tournament front; they may even be shelved altogether, or spun off into a special product. The message that they produce one winner and three losers is something that is now getting across under the new CEO. |
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Post by karaevfan on Mar 22, 2018 18:08:33 GMT 1
If you do a tournament, you get one winner and a lot of losers. The long term promotional utility of that then becomes basically zero. i suspect there's going to be some changes coming on the tournament front; they may even be shelved altogether, or spun off into a special product. The message that they produce one winner and three losers is something that is now getting across under the new CEO. If that happens that would be the happiest thing I've heard in kickboxing this year. |
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Post by fartsmeller on Mar 22, 2018 18:41:00 GMT 1
If you do a tournament, you get one winner and a lot of losers. The long term promotional utility of that then becomes basically zero. i suspect there's going to be some changes coming on the tournament front; they may even be shelved altogether, or spun off into a special product. The message that they produce one winner and three losers is something that is now getting across under the new CEO. Exciting times! Looking forward to seeing how this pans out, thanks. |
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Post by jjmanchester on Mar 25, 2018 10:20:15 GMT 1
i suspect there's going to be some changes coming on the tournament front; they may even be shelved altogether, or spun off into a special product. The message that they produce one winner and three losers is something that is now getting across under the new CEO. If that happens that would be the happiest thing I've heard in kickboxing this year. ..it begins.... look out for the positioning of the tournament on the G53 Lille card when the final running order is pushed out |
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Post by K1power on Mar 25, 2018 13:52:27 GMT 1
i suspect there's going to be some changes coming on the tournament front; they may even be shelved altogether That would be awesome. |
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