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Post by samurai1 on Nov 9, 2019 21:03:07 GMT 1
Sadly MMA stole most of the talent. In my city there used to be 3 kickboxing gyms, right now there is none... instead now we have 4 mma gyms although we had none back in 2007. More so, because of the internet, video games and smartphones kids prefer to stay home than go do a sport. So no, we definitely don't have better athletes these days and for sure not kickboxers, which is by far the most affected sport since MMA became mainstream and people rather chose to train mma than kickboxing.
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Post by K1power on Nov 10, 2019 18:04:19 GMT 1
I guess it depends on where you live.
There have always been tons of kickboxing gyms over here even before the sport got a boost by Rico vs. Badr.
If anything, popularity of kickboxing has increased in the Netherlands over the past 3 years or so.
The point Rico was making that - in more general terms - athletes today are better than athletes of previous generations due to innovations in training methods and technology, which is not an incorrect statement:
The thing is, I have my doubts about to which degree that applies to (super) heavyweight kickboxing.
Many heavyweight fighters solely rely on power since that often gets the job done and since there is no weight limit in HW kickboxing they can 'afford' to be lazy.
Aside from that, today we have maybe 5 true top level heavyweights: Rico, Badr, Ben Saddik, Adegbuyi and maybe Londt when he's actually in shape. After those few guys though, the drop off is steep due to a lack of talent/experience/physical tools/motivation.
During K-1's golden age we had at least 10 top level heavyweights who could all beat each other on a good day. And the 10 or so guys below that could still produce upsets against top dogs so the division was a lot more exciting than it is now.
There are a few talented upcoming heavyweights like Kryklia, El Bouni, Khbabez and Plazibat but until they consistently fight top level guys and produce some big wins in that area all they will be known for is being above average fighters with 'potential', but I digress...
I guess what I'm saying is; Aerts and Hoost are right about the state of the division. Rico makes a good point about athletes in general, but it doesn't really apply to HW kickboxing.
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Post by samurai1 on Nov 10, 2019 20:29:26 GMT 1
training methods have improved some, but there are a lot less people doing combat sports worldwide other than MMA than it was before. It's like a pool, the more they are the better are the chances that some good talent emerges. MMA and the internet/video games are responsible for this. And sadly MMA is taking over little by little in other parts of the world as well. They have beaten kickboxing in popularity in UK, Australia,sweden,Denmark,Russia,Poland, Romania etc... and they are still growing. Which is sad because I find kickboxing much more entertaining and artsy than mma.
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Post by K1power on Nov 11, 2019 12:22:46 GMT 1
Sure, fighters will go where the money is, which may or may not be better in MMA depending on how succesfull you are, but I believe that's only a tiny part of the problem.
After all the UFC - the de facto biggest MMA promotion - has a very weak heavyweight division as well; there's Miocic, Cormier and Ngannou and the drop off after those is pretty steep as well. You could make the argument that MMA has an even weaker heavyweight talent pool than kickboxing does.
I don't think this can be explained away with a general 'MMA is beating kickboxing in popularity'. It makes even less sense when you take into account that all weightclasses except heavyweight are doing fine in kickboxing; why would a difference in popularity only affect one division?
Besides, I would like to see some numbers that actually support MMA being more popular on a worldwide level. Not saying you're incorrect as you very well could be, but as I said I think it kind off depends where you look and it's more or less balanced when you look at it globally.
You may have a point about less people being involved in combat sports today, though again, I'd like to see some actual numbers for that.
Surprisingly, heavyweight boxing has gotten pretty interesting over these last few years.
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Post by K1power on Dec 6, 2019 22:15:46 GMT 1
Some fights added (OP Updated).
This is the card so far:
COLLISION 2
Rico Verhoeven (c) vs. Badr Hari
Zakaria Zouggary vs. Asa Ten Pow
Glory 74
Alex Pereira (c) vs. Ertugrul Bayrak
Michael Duut vs. Ariel Machado
Massaro Glunder vs. Mohammed Jaraya
Superfight Series
Jahfarr Wilnis vs. Antonio Plazibat
Cesar Almeida vs. Donovan Wisse
Looks good!
I hope they're not going to add a bunch of crappy matchups to fill this up as I'd rather have less fights that are all good.
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Post by K1power on Dec 6, 2019 22:16:59 GMT 1
BTW not sure if it was mentioned yet, but Rico vs. Badr has been upgraded to a title fight so I guess that means it's a five rounder now.
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Post by effinisbanned on Dec 10, 2019 23:41:00 GMT 1
They should have told the truth that Rico surely lost the second fight against Ghita. He was ultraprotected by Glory, but he has improved and for instance against Ben Saddik he was lucky. If they would have given the decision to Ghita, today's Verhoeven would have not existed.
I watched last night Rico-Ghita fights and all the comments are against the decision(s).
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lero
Advanced Member
Posts: 943
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Post by lero on Dec 11, 2019 5:07:59 GMT 1
Hi Broadcast.
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Post by effinisbanned on Dec 11, 2019 17:22:32 GMT 1
Hi, who? I am not that idiot. I am effin, ex-Kakutougi and Sherdog. I am Badr Hari fan, not Rico's. Merry Christmas to all!
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kbfan
Advanced Member
Posts: 634
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Post by kbfan on Dec 11, 2019 20:22:46 GMT 1
Broadcast is so cute  Go ahead and make a post on that user on sherdog now and link to it
Edit: oh, sorry, how rude of me  Merry Christmas to you as well and to all Kakutougi members!
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Post by K1power on Dec 12, 2019 20:58:40 GMT 1
They should have told the truth that Rico surely lost the second fight against Ghita. He was ultraprotected by Glory, but he has improved and for instance against Ben Saddik he was lucky. If they would have given the decision to Ghita, today's Verhoeven would have not existed. I watched last night Rico-Ghita fights and all the comments are against the decision(s). Hi effin. I remember you from the old kakutougi forum. While I'm not sure you are roy/woman/tomcat/glory/rudelb/broadcast, you at least seem to have the same 'ideology'. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here, but you're not off to a great start. If you're looking for an echo chamber for "Romanian fighters are getting screwed" conspiracy theories, then this is not the place for you. Hell, I'm not a big Verhoeven fan myself, but I'm getting tired of this argument which only Romanian fanboys bring up, really. Rico had two close fights with Ghita where he had a strong ending and ended up getting the nod. If you don't want to leave it in the hands of the judges knock your opponent out. Also, (YouTube) comment sections are hardly the place for nuanced opinions. Instead of taking his defeat with grace and coming back stronger, Ghita bitched publically about Rico every chance he got (losing at least my respect) and ultimately left the sport. I can't make up a better example of acting like a sore loser. Only after failing as a politician did he made his comeback, fighting exactly two fights in the past 14 months. And they weren't exactly high profile fights, but still he managed to criticize his fellow Romanian fighters who were/are doing more than he is. Ghita seems to be in training if his social media is anything to go by, but at 38 the clock is ticking for him and it's unlikely he's gonna get his 'revenge' outside of Glory. And I'm not even going to counter 'defeating Ghita made Rico what he is', because it's one of the most backward, pretzel logic ideas I've heard in a while. To bring this conversation back on topic to Rico who's actually relevant and the co-main draw of this card; I'm pretty excited for the fight! |
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Post by h on Dec 12, 2019 22:25:24 GMT 1
hey why you bringing pretzels into this? what did they do besides being delicious?
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Post by effinisbanned on Dec 13, 2019 1:57:26 GMT 1
They should have told the truth that Rico surely lost the second fight against Ghita. He was ultraprotected by Glory, but he has improved and for instance against Ben Saddik he was lucky. If they would have given the decision to Ghita, today's Verhoeven would have not existed. I watched last night Rico-Ghita fights and all the comments are against the decision(s). Hi effin. I remember you from the old kakutougi forum. While I'm not sure you are roy/woman/tomcat/glory/rudelb/broadcast, you at least seem to have the same 'ideology'. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here, but you're not off to a great start. If you're looking for an echo chamber for "Romanian fighters are getting screwed" conspiracy theories, then this is not the place for you. Hell, I'm not a big Verhoeven fan myself, but I'm getting tired of this argument which only Romanian fanboys bring up, really. Rico had two close fights with Ghita where he had a strong ending and ended up getting the nod. If you don't want to leave it in the hands of the judges knock your opponent out. Also, (YouTube) comment sections are hardly the place for nuanced opinions. Instead of taking his defeat with grace and coming back stronger, Ghita bitched publically about Rico every chance he got (losing at least my respect) and ultimately left the sport. I can't make up a better example of acting like a sore loser. Only after failing as a politician did he made his comeback, fighting exactly two fights in the past 14 months. And they weren't exactly high profile fights, but still he managed to criticize his fellow Romanian fighters who were/are doing more than he is. Ghita seems to be in training if his social media is anything to go by, but at 38 the clock is ticking for him and it's unlikely he's gonna get his 'revenge' outside of Glory. And I'm not even going to counter 'defeating Ghita made Rico what he is', because it's one of the most backward, pretzel logic ideas I've heard in a while. To bring this conversation back on topic to Rico who's actually relevant and the co-main draw of this card; I'm pretty excited for the fight! Hi, No, I am not that psycho, insane ultranationalistic guy. Broadcast does have huge knowledges combined with logic but is a hardcore propagandistic when it's come to Romanian fighters. He is true with some things but is overhyping. I have read you many times, you are also not very realistic. On the other hand between guys like C.H. and Rudel there is no difference, just that they are serving other countries. Though Broadcast aka Rudel looks to be a fair guy, I need to repeat myself that he's ultranationalistic. Ghita did not candidate. Broadcast is with the (national) liberals like Morosanu. I am with Ghita. Ghita is conservative and does not agree any party which is against Romania. He calls all of them as being puppets. Ghita is not neither pro-West, neither pro-Russia. There is truth in what Ghita says, he has exposed Glory's injustice, whilst in the case of the Romanian fighters he mocked them. He didn't know how to explain he is not even 10 percent fake product. Basically he is the number 1. You become arrogant when the values are reversed and the others are cocky. He knows probably stuff we don't. Otherwise he is hated now by many, mostly Morosanu illiterate fans and not only, because he's considered envious. Morosanu fans are Morocco 2, I strongly believe Catinas is also better than him not just Ghita and Adegbuyi. But to me, Ghita is a real patriot, this is what he has done all of his life. And imo between Hoost/Aerts and Verhoeven there is exactly the same. As the fight, I will be supporting the Golden Boy to knock Rico out and end his legacy. Lastly, when did Rico have a strong ending in the second fight? Ghita was all over him, won at least 4 rounds. First fight should have been an extra round, if not somebody would have won 3/5 rounds. No, not the Romanian fighters have been screwed but Ghita. I can't wait Badr to prove who is Rico, only if Badr would not be a shadow. |
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Post by K1power on Dec 15, 2019 19:07:23 GMT 1
Hi, No, I am not that psycho, insane ultranationalistic guy. Broadcast does have huge knowledges combined with logic but is a hardcore propagandistic when it's come to Romanian fighters. He is true with some things but is overhyping. I have read you many times, you are also not very realistic. On the other hand between guys like C.H. and Rudel there is no difference, just that they are serving other countries. Though Broadcast aka Rudel looks to be a fair guy, I need to repeat myself that he's ultranationalistic. Ghita did not candidate. Broadcast is with the (national) liberals like Morosanu. I am with Ghita. Ghita is conservative and does not agree any party which is against Romania. He calls all of them as being puppets. Ghita is not neither pro-West, neither pro-Russia. There is truth in what Ghita says, he has exposed Glory's injustice, whilst in the case of the Romanian fighters he mocked them. He didn't know how to explain he is not even 10 percent fake product. Basically he is the number 1. You become arrogant when the values are reversed and the others are cocky. He knows probably stuff we don't. Otherwise he is hated now by many, mostly Morosanu illiterate fans and not only, because he's considered envious. Morosanu fans are Morocco 2, I strongly believe Catinas is also better than him not just Ghita and Adegbuyi. But to me, Ghita is a real patriot, this is what he has done all of his life. I don't give a shit about Ghita's politics nor which fanclub supports which Romanian fighter for what reason. I have read you many times, you are also not very realistic. That's rich, coming from you. As the fight, I will be supporting the Golden Boy to knock Rico out and end his legacy. If Rico loses - and that's still an if - it won't take anything away from his mostly dominant run, albeit during a weaker era with fighters spread out over several promotions. Hell, Rico lost to Gerasimchuk DURING his run and most people didn't seem to make a huge deal out of it. A few losses don't take away from his accomplishments. Since 2012 Rico won 20 fights and lost 4. And a lot of those victories came against top level opposition. What are Ghita's best victories? I'd say Ben Saddik, Zimmerman and Hesdy. Those are good wins, but Ghita's always stumbled when it mattered most. You can call Rico a fraud all you want, but Ghita's record pales in comparison to Rico's. So what does that make him? It's fine that you believe Ghita won their two fights, but opinions are divided enough where one can conclude it was a close fight, not at all someone clearly being screwed. Also, it's pretty indicative when most people complaining about the result appear to be Ghita fans. |
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Post by effinisbanned on Dec 15, 2019 23:21:55 GMT 1
Ridiculous, Balrak fight was at the beginning of his world class career, at the rematch he beat Gerges by big KO. Gerges was a very good fighter at that time anyway.
All the comments on Youtube, Romanian or foreign, are against Verhoeven. In the second fight he took severe punishment, Rico did not win more than 1 round. First fight was also won by Ghita (3/5 rounds won).
Ghita also got injured for these fights, that's why he was not using both punches and leg kicks.
Verhoeven is a paper champion. Ghita was a savage, a destroyer.
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