Glory 47 - Lyon [28-10] Results

[Fox]

If Kevin van Nostrand got a title shot from his tournament there is a pretty good chance the winner of this tournament would get one. Well deserved too.

[JustBleedFan]

Oct 18, 2017 20:37:22 GMT 1 K1power said:

OP updated the full card. Ehh.. I still don't really like either card and think they're both 'okay' at best. However, I'm coming off a high from Glory 45 and an interesting experiment in Glory 46 so I'm still optimistic about this show at least ending up being entertaining. Glory's France events usually deliver.

Oct 18, 2017 2:10:57 GMT 1 JustBleedFan said:

It's an huge overstatement to say that winning a Glory Contender tournament doesn't mean jack. Most of the tournament winners have gotten title shots within a reasonable period of time after their tournament win. I recently compiled a list of tournament winners from 2016 to present and the numbers bore that out. Glory is obviously being a bit more flexible about it now since they have had a lot of tournaments and as a result some weight classes where the deserving contenders are stacking up. So some of the recent tournament winners have had to wait their turn or got put into a number one contender type of fight in some cases. A good example of a recent tournament that worked perfectly from my perspective is Glory 43 NYC in July this year where Kevin VanNostrand won two fights dominantly and looked better than ever. No one was talking about him as the next challenger before. Or even talking about him at all for that matter. According to Glory he's supposed to be the next challenger for Robin van Roosmalen. I hope that comes off as planned because it's a fresh matchup and maybe stylistically interesting too.

Here's a list of when the trend of tournament winners not getting title shots began until its most recent instance:
Glory 29 - Ismael Londt wins Tournament > NO Title Fight
Glory 30 - Richard Abraham wins Tournament > NO Title Fight
Glory 31 - Murthel Groenhart wins Tournament > Title Fight
Glory 32 - Zinedine Hameur-Lain wins Tournament > NO Title Fight
Glory 33 - Matt Embree wins Tournament > Title Fight
Glory 34 - Israel Adesanya wins Tournament > Title Fight
Glory 35 - Benjamin Adegbuyi wins Tournament > NO Title Fight
Glory 36 - Dylan Salvador wins Tournament > Title Fight
Glory 37 - Yoann Kongolo wins Tournament > Title Fight
Glory 38 - Ariel Machado wins Tournament > Title Fight
Glory 39 - Petchpanomrung Kiatmookao wins Tournament > Title Fight
Glory 40 - Yousri Belgaroui wins Tournament > NO Title Fight
Glory 41 - D'Angelo Marshall wins Tournament > NO Title Fight

So within that timeframe 13 tournaments produced only 7 Title Fights. That's an awful statistic that destroys your credibility as a promotion. Glory literally markets these contender tournaments as if winning one makes you next in line for a title shot. That's clearly not the case, unless it fits within Glory's agenda or narrative or however you want to call it. Glory does the same with their hilariously awful rankings where logic does not apply to them, but I digress..

I say winning a tournament doesn't mean jack, because it brings you no closer to a title than 'just' winning 2 non-tournament fights back to back does. There is literally no added value or need for these tournaments.

It doesn't help that they have - largely - become a bore to watch to the point where I've grown to dread the term '4-Man Tournament'. They were a requirement of the Spike-TV deal, but for some reason Glory is still doing them.

IMO they're wasting precious slots on the main card and if Glory must absolutely keep doing them for whatever reason I wish they;
- either stop calling them contender tournaments OR return to consistently handing out title shots
- put them (at least partially) on the SFS portion of the card so they don't take up 60%(!!) of the main card

Richard Abraham won a Qualification Tournament, not a Contender Tournament so that doesn't count.

If you go back to the start of the most recent full calendar year 2016 and end at Glory 41 where you arbitrarily ended the time period, then 9 out of 14 Contender Tournament winners got a title shot since they won the tournament up until present. That's a significantly higher percentage.

Glory 27- Dustin Jacoby: MW Contender Tournament Winner- YES
Glory 28- Sitthichai Sitsongpeenong: LW Contender Tournament Winner- YES
Glory 29- Ismael Londt: HW Contender Tournament Winner- NO
Glory 30- Qualification Tournament
Glory 31- Murthel Groenhart: WW Contender Tournament Winner- YES
Glory 32- Zinedine Hameur-Lain: LHW Contender Tournament Winner- NO
Glory 33- Matt Embree: FW Contender Tournament Winner- YES
Glory 34- Israel Adesanya: MW Contender Tournament Winner- YES
Glory 35- Benjamin Adegbuyi: HW Contender Tournament Winner- NO
Glory 36- Dylan Salvador: LW Contender Tournament Winner- YES
Glory 37- Yoann Kongolo: WW Contender Tournament Winner- YES
Glory 38- Ariel Machado: LHW Contender Tournament Winner- YES
Glory 39- Petchpanomrung Kiatmookao: FW Contender Tournament Winner- YES
Glory 40- Yousri Belgaroui: MW Contender Tournament Winner- NO
Glory 41- D'Angelo Marshall: HW Contender Tournament Winner- NO

For what it's worth Yousri Belgaroui seems to be next in line for a MW title shot. The ambiguity doesn't really bother me as much as it seems to bother you, especially since Glory has said straight out that the Contender Tournament winners may not get an immediate title shot in some cases, but maybe get a number one title contender matchup instead or have to wait their turn. I personally like the idea of watching frequent tournaments with the aspect of having two fights in one night even if the stakes and the reward may be flexible depending on the situation and how many contenders are stacking up. If they went to a straight matchmaking system and just chose who they thought made sense for the next title shot that would be fine. But I'd kind of miss the tournaments unless maybe they changed it to more infrequent eight-man tournaments instead. Doesn't matter to me whether the tournaments are on the SFS or main card or spread across both.

[K1power]

Oct 19, 2017 7:45:02 GMT 1 JustBleedFan said:

Richard Abraham won a Qualification Tournament, not a Contender Tournament so that doesn't count.

That's Glory staff level defense there, but sure let's go with it for a minute:
Winner of the 'qualification' tournament was supposed to fill a slot in the upcoming Welterweight Contender Tournament. I didn't see Richard Abraham in any of the following WW tournaments. He even competed on the same card where a Welterweight contender tournament was being held, but he was in a single fight against Daniel Morales of all people in a co-main event of all things. I'm not even going to attempt to count all the missteps in logic there. Either way; even if the tournament was not a contender tournament, the winner of it still didn't receive the intended prize. You can choose not to count it on a technicality, but it's just the same bullshit under a different name so to me it absolutely 'counts'.

If you go back to the start of the most recent full calendar year 2016 and end at Glory 41 where you arbitrarily ended the time period, then 9 out of 14 Contender Tournament winners got a title shot since they won the tournament up until present. That's a significantly higher percentage.

Getting a more favorable statistic really isn't the point here. The point is that in the timespan of little over a year there were 6 (!) instances where a tournament winner didn't get what was promised. I didn't 'arbitrarily' end anything. I could have added Chris Baya in there, but feel it's been too recent to conclude he won't get a title shot.

For what it's worth Yousri Belgaroui seems to be next in line for a MW title shot. The ambiguity doesn't really bother me as much as it seems to bother you

And that's totally fine. Nothing wrong with liking what you like and defending it. However: this is the kind of BS that makes it hard for people to take kickboxing serious as a sport. There shouldn't be 'ambiguity' in something that is clearly defined: Winning a contender tournament makes you next in line for a title shot. It really is that simple. Like I said you only get a title shot if it fits Glory's agenda.

Glory has said straight out that the Contender Tournament winners may not get an immediate title shot in some cases, but maybe get a number one title contender matchup instead or have to wait their turn.

That's not how it started out, we got to that point over time.

I personally like the idea of watching frequent tournaments with the aspect of having two fights in one night even if the stakes and the reward may be flexible depending on the situation and how many contenders are stacking up. If they went to a straight matchmaking system and just chose who they thought made sense for the next title shot that would be fine. But I'd kind of miss the tournaments unless maybe they changed it to more infrequent eight-man tournaments instead. Doesn't matter to me whether the tournaments are on the SFS or main card or spread across both.

Again, it's fine you like them, but a lot of people have problems with these tournaments for various - justified - reasons. Even if Glory did everything 'right' and followed their own rules consistently without making them up as they go along 4-man tournaments would STILL be a hard sell for me. All this added BS just completely killed them for me.

There's a reason Dave's article The Age of the Kickboxing Four Man Tournament is Over got a big response within the community - including some of Glory's staff.

[Shadess]

Think the Glory tournaments definitely have issues.

Doing them just because every event needs to have one instead of doing one when the division needs one isn't too great. Also they're seemingly not paying top fighters enough to entice them to fight up to 2x in one night. I just quickly ctrl+f'd through Glory in 2017 wiki page and IMO there's been 7 tournaments that weren't exactly something I'd consider world top level, 2 that were and 1 in between. Well fuck it I went through the other years too and every year has gotten a bit worse. A qualification tournament or 2 in there but the slide is real.

[dvewlsh]

From my understanding, GLORY fighters don't get paid two fight purses per tournament. That's, in part, because they aren't paid like traditional fight promotions and are instead paid like television actors through imagine rights and so forth.

[JustBleedFan]

I'll say one thing, if that leaked document from the athletic commission that I saw several weeks ago from a recent Glory card in the state of California was accurate, all of these Glory kickboxers are woefully underpaid, even compared to the UFC minimum where debuting fighters with zero following get no less than $10k to fight and $10k if they win plus $2500 from Reebok.

I think being a long time UFC fan has trained me to live with ambiguity in combat sports promotions and not get worked up over it. Their heavyweight champion is a part-time fighter who works full time as a firefighter and paramedic. In what other sport can the best in the world have a separate career? Their LHW champion was just given his belt back on a technicality despite being knocked out in his most recent defense because the long time ex-champion who beat him was caught using PEDs. The MW champion who won the belt fair & square by KO isn't considered by most to be the best in the division and he's not defending against the interim champion they crowned recently, but instead against the former welterweight kingpin coming back from a four year hiatus because he thinks he can move up in weight and take the MW crown easy. The WW champion bores people to death in his recent performances and kept his belt on a draw and then a wide UD in a fight where almost nothing happened that was frustrating to watch. The LW champion is a superstar so big he calls his own shots and has never defended any belt. The interim LW champion they crowned recently has to wait to maybe get a unification bout, but more likely he'll end up fighting another top contender while the primary champion chases another boxing payday or trilogy "money fight" in a rubber match against an old rival. Their FW champion is awesome but he only has the belt because the aforementioned LW champion refused to defend his simultaneously held FW title and had the belt stripped. Only bantamweight and flyweight are pretty much without controversy. I won't even get started on the women's divisions.

On the balance, the situation to establish the next contenders in Glory doesn't really seem that odd to me.

[Shadess]

If you mean the one from sherdog it wasn't leaked. Some commissions share them on request, not all.

[JustBleedFan]

Oct 20, 2017 12:13:32 GMT 1 Shadess said:

If you mean the one from sherdog it wasn't leaked. Some commissions share them on request, not all.

Oh yeah, that makes it even more interesting if the athletic commission in California releases it on request. I wonder if they get some other payments other than what was disclosed.

[dvewlsh]

That's not the full pay. I mean, I've seen contracts where fight purses are different from their full pay.

[K1power]

Happening this Saturday!

[JustBleedFan]

Oct 24, 2017 17:56:01 GMT 1 K1power said:

Happening this Saturday!

I like Glory cards being in Europe on a Saturday because I can start watching with brunch and be done in time for the UFC prelims to start for a full day of combat sports action.

[dvewlsh]

This is just me, but I haaaaate the Saturday cards.

Mostly because my wife works Fri, Sat and Sunday, 7pm - 7am. Usually isn't home until 8am. Kids wake up at 7. Kids go to bed at like 8:30pm, but wake up at least twice at night, meaning I don't get to sleep until later. This means to cover a GLORY card I need to get about 3 hours of sleep.

[Fox]

What job does your wife have that gives her the worst hours imaginable?

[Shadess]

US cards are timed the worst (!) but ~central European time is probably at a sweet spot for global kickboxing.
K-1 in the morning, China somewhere around noon to six and Euro stuff following those. Now if Americans could only move 5-6 hours either way...

[K1power]

It all comes down to your location and personal circumstances. I happen to really like the European Glory events, because typically the cards are better than the US ones and since I live in Europe the events are on at a more convenient time.

Having said that, this might very well become the third Glory card in a row I'm not seeing live.