K-1 WORLD MAX FINAL 2014 - RESULTS

[Kenshin (Banned)]

I just knew you had to comment on it lol.

[dvewlsh]

So Buakaw had his tear-filled press conference today -- SURPRISE SURPRISE -- with Robbie Timmers there (am I an oracle?!) to run down K-1 to set the tone for the event.

Buakaw then said that he walked out for his own honor and that it was over the rules being changed last minute and the talk of illegal gambling. He claimed it was in protest to him being screwed, while they ignore a few key facts.

Buakaw walked up to Enriko Kehl before he left and said to him, "you won, you won," then bolted. Buakaw left without knowing the result of the fight, so his story is once again shoddy at best. No evidence was presented so he still has no proof. Fans are still going to blindly believe him, so whatever. This is pretty much done and will result in a long-ass lawsuit.

[Jofeljoh!]

Can I read the full statement in print somewhere?

Also, what's the significance (or objection?) of Robbie Timmers being there?

[dvewlsh]

There's sadly no full statement anywhere, only bits and pieces.

www.bangkokpost.com/news/sports/437558/buakaw-quit-due-to-unfair-result
www.thairath.co.th/content/456696

His story of leaving because of protesting the result is bullshit and it's crazy how nobody there asked him about leaving before the decision was even rendered.

The stuff with Timmers all links back to Bas Boon and Remon Daalder and their grudge against the K-1 brand for not being sold to Boon when he tried to purchase it years ago. The significance is that Robbie Timmers has NOTHING to do with this, literally zero, so why is he there?

The other part that is significant about him is that Buakaw and Yim hated him with a passion. The main reason that Buakaw didn't sign with GLORY was that Timmers came off as abrasive, rude and disrespectful to them and they didn't want to do business with him. Now all of a sudden they like Robbie?

Even more so is that Andurand and Co. were very upset when they saw Cor with Boon, Timmers and Van Der Wal (a GLORY lawyer) at the K-1 MAX show.

This is such a stupid mess and it's just going to end in a crappy lawsuit where everyone looks shitty.

[Jofeljoh!]

Before I react I must disclose that I know Robbie Timmers personally (for many years) and in fact consider him a friend. Also I have no questions about his integrity or any reasons to lie to me about this.

I think you are wrong or at best misinformed about Buakaw hating Robbie. In fact, they're actually pretty close, Buakaw has stayed with him and vice versa multiple times, going out. At one point in time there was an opportunity that Robbie would do Buakaws management and the only reason that didn't go through was that they couldn't agree upon the conditions of the contract.

The reason why Robbie was at the K-1 is because he also represents Murthel Groenhart as a fighter. Groenhart still has to get paid by K-1, after having won a tournament almost 2 years ago.

Now Buakaw also has some issues with K-1, mainly about his contract and money. The story is that Buakaw signed for fights and an upcoming tourney (this one), assuming there was an additional bonus for winning the tourney (which turned out to be false), so even if he won, financially he would gain nothing more. Now let's be clear, this shouldn't be a reason to walk out in my personal opinion.

Furthermore there - allegedly- have been some rules changes last minute - although I didn't get into that and I don't know what was going on there. I asked about the gambling-thing but he didn't know exactly what was going on there.

The only reason Robbie was at Buakaws gym is to gain support against K-1 for screwing over (although this is up to debate obviously) fighters. Since Robbie was already there for speaking out in the media about Groenhart not being paid, and he and Buakaw are good friends, Buakaw asked him to 'tag along', so to speak. His intentions were not to destroy K-1 with bad press, but he did want to speak out more publicly about issues that still haven't been resolved.

-----------

To be clear: my mission is not to make any excuses for Buakaw or takes side. I do however feel obliged to clear some things up where I can. I think it's equally wrong to at the one hand join a million nuthuggers and believe always and everything, but at the other assume the opposite and that Buakaw is lying. I do think it's a stupid mess but in a very grey area for that matter. I don't know Buakaw personally obviously, but everything I've read, seen on TV (documentaries) and heard first hand from people who do know him a little better, I have no other choice dan giving him at least a little bit the benifit of the doubt.

[K1power]

Oct 14, 2014 5:43:48 GMT 1 Jofeljoh! said:

I don't know the full story (yet), and I'm not a blind Buakaw-nuthugger, but I feel something's shady going on, and not on Buakaws part.

Of course that's a big claim that need to be proved by Buakaw's camp, but that is where my source is pointing to, and I'm inclined to believe him.

I'm interested to see how this plays out (and I don't think the K-1 statement clarifies anything for that matter).

I believe you're a personal friend of Robbie, yes? I half expected you to comment here as soon as his name popped up in the discussion, but at the same time I am surprised by it.

I guess I can't blame you for siding with someone you have ties with and I don't want to be the guy to say something bad about a 'friend of a friend', but Robbie is pretty much known to be a Glory shill. Also, he has made some of the dumbest anti-k1 posts ever over at the Dutch forums a few years ago. To me he's obviously biased and his words about as trustworthy as Bas Boon.

Edit: Ahh, you beat me to it

However that whole comment oozes 'let's continue to take digs at K-1'. Thanks for trying to add another point of view for clarification, though.

[rictor]

Wasn't there a ridiculous story with that Robbie dude that he was apparently a Glory representative in Thailand, but according to them wasn't, but still negotiated some deals on their part with some big wig smart-asses involved in Glory finding it convenient cause if he screwed something they could just say they don't have any ties with him?

Oct 14, 2014 5:43:48 GMT 1 Jofeljoh! said:

I don't know the full story (yet), and I'm not a blind Buakaw-nuthugger, but I feel something's shady going on, and not on Buakaws part.

Of course that's a big claim that need to be proved by Buakaw's camp, but that is where my source is pointing to, and I'm inclined to believe him.

Do you know some more about this Jofel and can share? I agree that I'm probably not neutral on this matter and could be I only ever heard pro-promotion side of things but (will borrow it from another forum, didn't follow Buakaw's life story that closely to be able to accurately list it all)

Por pramuk scandal, running from pinca, thai fight scandal, running away from thaifight due to the big signing of yod, crying on the the ring and bringing in dad, fighting and getting arrested, to now this recent k-1 drama stint

I just find it difficult to believe that all the promoters in the world have something against Buakaw and are trying to screw him one way or the other. After he left Por. Pramuk was there any promotion he fought for that he didn't leave on a sour note burning all the bridges behind him?

Already elaborated on the matter I see. Thanks. Other points of view are always welcomed.

One thing though. Someone negotiated with Buakaw on behalf of Glory but it fell through with Buakaw choosing the K-1 deal instead. That is correct, right? Now, some of the posters claiming to have sources in Glory pointed to Robbie negotiating that deal. If that is correct (and I can't confirm or deny that myself) something mst have been an issue cause apparently that Glory deal was financially better than K-1's.

[Jofeljoh!]

Oct 14, 2014 12:14:19 GMT 1 K1power said:

Oct 14, 2014 5:43:48 GMT 1 Jofeljoh! said:

I don't know the full story (yet), and I'm not a blind Buakaw-nuthugger, but I feel something's shady going on, and not on Buakaws part.

Of course that's a big claim that need to be proved by Buakaw's camp, but that is where my source is pointing to, and I'm inclined to believe him.

I'm interested to see how this plays out (and I don't think the K-1 statement clarifies anything for that matter).

I believe you're a personal friend of Robbie, yes? I half expected you to comment here as soon as his name popped up in the discussion, but at the same time I am surprised by it.


I guess I can't blame you for siding with someone you have ties with and I don't want to be the guy to say something bad about a 'friend of a friend', but Robbie is pretty much known to be a Glory shill. Also, he has made some of the dumbest anti-k1 posts ever over at the Dutch forums a few years ago. To me he's obviously biased and his words about as trustworthy as Bas Boon.

I'll only defend someone if I think I can vouch for him.


And you shouldn't hold back of your opinion, I just ask for a chance to read/listen to the other side of the story. I must say that in the last few years I haven't followed the scene as extensively as I once have. But if I do a quick search and see this:


www.fighttalk.nl/vforum/martial-arts-group2/martial-arts-forum-forum2/persbericht-bas-boon-thread365/


I see someone who's both critical of K-1 ánd Glory, and at the same time asks to give al the organizations a chance, for kickboxing's sake.

[rictor]

Daniel Malachovsky No photo of Buakaw runnig out of building?
I hope you can recover from this. Buakaw lost my respect, he is just talking bullshit without evidence.

Marc Marko You are probably the only one in the world with this opinion! Proof, you need proof? This must be the first K1 fight you have ever seen... All the rest of us, who have followed K1 since the beginning, know how corrupt the K1 has always been. K1 is a shameful organisation and everybody knows it. Better read the comments under the previous post of ''K1 global official (ENG)''!

The reasoning here is golden.

Some statements that popped out on Banchamek facebook

Buakaw Banchamek issued a statement on 14 October 2014 at Banchamek Gym. He said that the decision to leave the ring that day was his alone, & it was made before he knew the result for the first 3 rounds of the fight, & without the prior knowledge of his team, who were confused & followed him out of the arena without any idea of what was going on.

In response to questions from the press, Buakaw said that he did not wish to talk about matters related to gambling now as he had already filed a report with the Crime Suppression Division on 7 October 2014. He also said that K-1 has been making changes to the rules all along & right up to just before the fight, & that the changes had been announced in English & the translation was not clear to him.

Buakaw assured that he fought to the fullest, & that he is ready to fight Enriko again in a rematch, provided that both parties still have a contract.

Buakaw said - "I decided everything by myself. Nobody forced me to leave the stage. I would like to thank to my Muay-Thai teachers who made me what I am today. I do not regret that I walked off the stage, but I will be so sorry if there is something that will make Muay-Thai and my career going in bad direction. I decided to walk off the stage to protect my own dignity and own profession. I have never had a history about giving up on the stage but this time I felt that Muay-Thai and my profession is going to be damaged. Some people may not understand what I was doing but I still confirm that I have not abandoned the duty of Muay-Thai fighter. Win or lose was depended on the referees but I will let the audience see and judge."

"I was worried about the changes of rules (to limit Muay-Thai techniques) but that was not the main reason."

"I have no any comment about gambling."

[K1power]

Jofeljoh! said:

I see someone who's both critical of K-1 ánd Glory, and at the same time asks to give al the organizations a chance, for kickboxing's sake.

I tend to disagree as I've seen posts coming from him where he dismissed K-1 events before they were even held while shortly after whitnessing blatant Glory nuthugging by him in one of Steven's podcasts.

At the same time I'm not exactly neutral in this either and everyone favors his/her own opinion over anyone elses.

[killlah]

Oct 14, 2014 13:51:02 GMT 1 rictor said:

Daniel Malachovsky No photo of Buakaw runnig out of building?
I hope you can recover from this. Buakaw lost my respect, he is just talking bullshit without evidence.

Marc Marko You are probably the only one in the world with this opinion! Proof, you need proof? This must be the first K1 fight you have ever seen... All the rest of us, who have followed K1 since the beginning, know how corrupt the K1 has always been. K1 is a shameful organisation and everybody knows it. Better read the comments under the previous post of ''K1 global official (ENG)''!

I just asked and that stupid "answered" me as i expected


This is the best:
www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=873348152676686&id=492454834099355&comment_id=873355159342652&reply_comment_id=873361062675395&offset=0&total_comments=3&notif_t=share_reply

At Buakaw’s press conference held at Banchamek Gym at Soi Yothin Phattana 3, Buakaw said that he decided to leave the ring at the end of the third round because he was confident that he would be the winner of the fight, & he believed that the audience thought the same too. & so he decided to leave without waiting for the judges’ decision to be announced. But on arrival back at his accommodation, when he found out that the decision was a tie, he decided not to return to continue with the fight as he felt that the decision was unfair, that it was still ruled a tie even though he had won. If he returned to fight the fourth round, the result might turn out to be even worse.

So Buakaw left, because was sure he won. Made my day

[rictor]

Buakaw held a press conference regarding his recent K-1 fight, assuring everyone that the decision to leave the ring was his alone, & he did so for the sake of the honour of muay thai. However, he is prepared for a rematch with his opponent (Enriko Kehl) if both parties still have contracts with K-1.

Buakaw said, "everything was decided by myself alone, & I did not discuss it with or reveal it to anyone beforehand, not even with my juniors or my team. Those who went to watch me fight still have no idea what caused this to happen. I would like to thank the teacher who taught me muay thai, which has allowed me to get to where I am today. I am not sad about leaving the ring, but I will be sad if there are factors that cause my muay thai - my profession - to go down the wrong path. Therefore I made the decision to step down from the ring, for my own honour, for my profession. I have never had the history of entering the ring & giving up. But this time I felt that my profession of muay thai was going to be ruined. Some might understand what I've done, & some might not, but I still assure you that I didn't abandon my duty in the ring. Defeat or victory is decided by the judges, but I would let the audience be the ones to decide. Thank you for all your support."

As for K-1 setting rules that prevented him from utilising the techniques that he is skilled in, Buakaw said that he is uncomfortable with the changes in rules, but that was not the main reason. Buakaw also chose not to comment on whether the fight was linked to gambling or rigged, but affirmed that he will continue to fight in K-1 until the end of his contract with them in December 2015, as this contract was drafted by his own lawyer. As for not completing the recent fight, Buakaw said that he had thought it over himself since before the fight & decided that he would fight only 3 rounds. Now that problems have surfaced, he will send his lawyer to discuss with K-1 on a way forward.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

All right. So trying to look at this objectively without any bias.

Buakaw left the ring to protect his own dignity and the honour of muay thai. But what exactly threatened it? This should be clarified cause such statement doesn't really explain anything (and the thing about leaving the ring cause he thought he won the fight I will just treat as a bad joke; not only is it silly in itself but also doesn't make sense, would you leave without being presented with the belt if you were absolutely sure you won the fight?).

Changes to the rules. Can't really blame this K-1 that FEG banned clinch etc. so that's irrelevant. The "seizing his opponent by the leg & kicking down his opponent" also never scored points in K-1 (or am I wrong?) so does that really change anything?

The gambling issue was left with no comment. Guess here we have to wait when and if the police will make any statement.

Rumored contract issues/K-1 not upholding the terms of the deal etc. Buakaw is saying that he will still fight for K-1 until his contract runs in December 2015. If there were really any issues there wouldn't it be logical to present the papers and prove that he was wronged there?

Am I biased or such statements don't really bring anything to the table?

[dvewlsh]

Oct 14, 2014 12:10:52 GMT 1 Jofeljoh! said:

Before I react I must disclose that I know Robbie Timmers personally (for many years) and in fact consider him a friend. Also I have no questions about his integrity or any reasons to lie to me about this.

I think you are wrong or at best misinformed about Buakaw hating Robbie. In fact, they're actually pretty close, Buakaw has stayed with him and vice versa multiple times, going out. At one point in time there was an opportunity that Robbie would do Buakaws management and the only reason that didn't go through was that they couldn't agree upon the conditions of the contract.

The reason why Robbie was at the K-1 is because he also represents Murthel Groenhart as a fighter. Groenhart still has to get paid by K-1, after having won a tournament almost 2 years ago.

Now Buakaw also has some issues with K-1, mainly about his contract and money. The story is that Buakaw signed for fights and an upcoming tourney (this one), assuming there was an additional bonus for winning the tourney (which turned out to be false), so even if he won, financially he would gain nothing more. Now let's be clear, this shouldn't be a reason to walk out in my personal opinion.

Furthermore there - allegedly- have been some rules changes last minute - although I didn't get into that and I don't know what was going on there. I asked about the gambling-thing but he didn't know exactly what was going on there.

The only reason Robbie was at Buakaws gym is to gain support against K-1 for screwing over (although this is up to debate obviously) fighters. Since Robbie was already there for speaking out in the media about Groenhart not being paid, and he and Buakaw are good friends, Buakaw asked him to 'tag along', so to speak. His intentions were not to destroy K-1 with bad press, but he did want to speak out more publicly about issues that still haven't been resolved.

-----------

To be clear: my mission is not to make any excuses for Buakaw or takes side. I do however feel obliged to clear some things up where I can. I think it's equally wrong to at the one hand join a million nuthuggers and believe always and everything, but at the other assume the opposite and that Buakaw is lying. I do think it's a stupid mess but in a very grey area for that matter. I don't know Buakaw personally obviously, but everything I've read, seen on TV (documentaries) and heard first hand from people who do know him a little better, I have no other choice dan giving him at least a little bit the benifit of the doubt.

Okay, THAT makes a lot of sense. I'm putting this together.

I'm not saying anything bad about Robbie, honestly, he's a guy that I've barely interacted with and I know people like Steven think highly of him. This is just what I had heard, it originating from Yim.

It would make a LOT of sense that Yim would dislike Robbie, especially if Robbie was friends with him. I heard from a few people within GLORY that Robbie and Buakaw were friends and then heard from people in Thailand that Yim likes to be controlling and tries to control who Buakaw associates with, etc.

My main point is still that there are strange bedfellows here and Robbie piling on was kind of ridiculous.

[dvewlsh]

Oct 14, 2014 15:28:45 GMT 1 rictor said:

Buakaw held a press conference regarding his recent K-1 fight, assuring everyone that the decision to leave the ring was his alone, & he did so for the sake of the honour of muay thai. However, he is prepared for a rematch with his opponent (Enriko Kehl) if both parties still have contracts with K-1.

Buakaw said, "everything was decided by myself alone, & I did not discuss it with or reveal it to anyone beforehand, not even with my juniors or my team. Those who went to watch me fight still have no idea what caused this to happen. I would like to thank the teacher who taught me muay thai, which has allowed me to get to where I am today. I am not sad about leaving the ring, but I will be sad if there are factors that cause my muay thai - my profession - to go down the wrong path. Therefore I made the decision to step down from the ring, for my own honour, for my profession. I have never had the history of entering the ring & giving up. But this time I felt that my profession of muay thai was going to be ruined. Some might understand what I've done, & some might not, but I still assure you that I didn't abandon my duty in the ring. Defeat or victory is decided by the judges, but I would let the audience be the ones to decide. Thank you for all your support."

As for K-1 setting rules that prevented him from utilising the techniques that he is skilled in, Buakaw said that he is uncomfortable with the changes in rules, but that was not the main reason. Buakaw also chose not to comment on whether the fight was linked to gambling or rigged, but affirmed that he will continue to fight in K-1 until the end of his contract with them in December 2015, as this contract was drafted by his own lawyer. As for not completing the recent fight, Buakaw said that he had thought it over himself since before the fight & decided that he would fight only 3 rounds. Now that problems have surfaced, he will send his lawyer to discuss with K-1 on a way forward.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

All right. So trying to look at this objectively without any bias.

Buakaw left the ring to protect his own dignity and the honour of muay thai. But what exactly threatened it? This should be clarified cause such statement doesn't really explain anything (and the thing about leaving the ring cause he thought he won the fight I will just treat as a bad joke; not only is it silly in itself but also doesn't make sense, would you leave without being presented with the belt if you were absolutely sure you won the fight?).

Changes to the rules. Can't really blame this K-1 that FEG banned clinch etc. so that's irrelevant. The "seizing his opponent by the leg & kicking down his opponent" also never scored points in K-1 (or am I wrong?) so does that really change anything?

The gambling issue was left with no comment. Guess here we have to wait when and if the police will make any statement.

Rumored contract issues/K-1 not upholding the terms of the deal etc. Buakaw is saying that he will still fight for K-1 until his contract runs in December 2015. If there were really any issues there wouldn't it be logical to present the papers and prove that he was wronged there?

Am I biased or such statements don't really bring anything to the table?

It's not biased at all. That is a good breakdown of the whole thing.

Honestly, I don't think that I'm "biased" against Buakaw at this point or anything. I know that I'm not "biased" for any one promotion because I've had business relationships with both K-1 and GLORY on a small scale over the past two years. My prerogatives for both of these guys to succeed and do well. 

Why? Because it is good for the sport as a whole.

What Buakaw did (and what Badr is doing right this fucking moment) is bad for the sport. These people ARE bad for the sport. 

There are people within K-1 and people within Glory that are passionate, smart and honest. They really, really care about the sport and shit like this hurts them even if it ISN'T their promotion. 

Buakaw has pulled this kind of shit so many times before to the extent of me not believing him anymore. It's classic boy that cried wolf stuff. 

[fartsmeller]

The common thread between both Badr and Buakaw is that they're absolutely beloved by people who don't watch kickboxing and aren't engaged in the news cycle or narrative, so anything that gets repeated often enough is going to become stone cold truth.